List of improperly flagged non 16x9 DVD's? (1 Viewer)

[Neil Joseph]

I was wondering if such a list exists and where it is. As you may know or not know, some non anamorphic DVD's are improperly flagged so that they display incorrectly in a 16x9 setup... Titanic is one prime example. Is Armageddon (Disney) another culprit?

 

[John Stockton]

Can you please elaborate a little more on this. What happens to the picture when you play Titanic on a 16x9 TV??

 

[Sean Moon]

Think this is meaning in reference to certain players with scaling. My JVC scales flagged non 16x9 movies to fit my Panny 47. Good example of this is ABYSS. But some movies, like RUnning man and Time Bandits are not flagged right, so I get windowboxed and letterboxed at same time.

I also am curious for a list of improperly flagged movies.

 

[BrandonJF]

From my experience, every single non-anamorphic disc I have tried. I'll have to stick in The Abyss to see if it scales ok - if it does, it would be the first properly flagged title I've seen. It doesn't seem like there are many out there...

 

[Neil Joseph]

I know that ...

- The Little Mermaid
- Buzz Lightyear Of Star Command
- Deep Impact
- Titanic

are at least four that "windowbox" on most dvd players when displayed on 16x9 setups. They have black bars at the top and bottom, as well as both sides.

 

[Adam_ME]

I believe just about every non-anamorphic Fox DVD I have is flagged to fill my 16x9 TV. Most of my Buena Vista discs do the same. Paramount runs about 50/50 in my collection. For example, the aforementioned Deep Impact and Titanic DVDs aren't flagged, but Star Trek VI and Primal Fear are. And last I checked, none of the Criterions are flagged. Fortunately, non-anamorphic discs from the remaining studios are rare.

 

[Robert Dunnill]

What happens to the picture when you play Titanic on a 16x9 TV??

Depends on the TV, the mode it is operating in, and the player.

With my SD-582 and the SD5109 (progressive outputs), the image was stretched horizontally across the screen without a corresponding vertical stretch...the infamous FULL-mode lock. If I used the RP-91 in the same fashion, it may or may not have automatically detected the flagging and scaled it, so that the image was properly proportioned; if not, I had the option of manually turning on the scaling.

I think most 16x9s these days will for aspect ratio control with 480p progressive inputs. That was definitely not true three years ago when I bought my set.

RD

 

[Sean Moon]

The discs I own that are badly flagged are Batman Beyond:Return of the Joker UNCUT, Running Man, and Time Bandits Criterion. My other nonanamorphic discs that scale properly are Abyss, Office Space, Grosse Point Blank, Trainspotting, and Fist of Legend.

 

[Sean Conklin]

I would add Armageddon to that list and also Deep Impact, Dr. Doolittle, theres a bunch.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

the "flagging" should mean whether the video on the disc has been properly flagged as a "4x3 letterbox" signal.

If your progressive-scan DVD can perform auto-scaling for converting 4x3 lbxed images to 16x9 for your 16x9 display...when it sees this flag it auto-scales so the end result is as if you were watching a normal anamorphic 16x9 disc on your TV (naturally w/out the 33% inherent resolution increase vs 4x3 lbx transfer).

Most Buena Vista 4x3 lbx DVDs (Sister Act) are properly 'flagged' and my Panny RP 91 auto-scales them to 16x9 without my having to ever go through a menu or get out the remote.

At least it's something that the studios can do since they couldn't give us a *real* 16x9 transfer to begin with...it makes it much more convenient for those of us with scaling DVD players!

dave

 

[Robert Dunnill]

I used an RP-91 for two years, and noticed that with some non-enhanced discs it would scale automatically, while with others I had to manually instruct it to scale. I assumed it was some kind of flagging issue, but it was never a biggie. More annoying was how the RP-91 tended to cut off subtitles on non-enhanced 1.66:1.

RD

 

[Scott Merryfield]

More annoying was how the RP-91 tended to cut off subtitles on non-enhanced 1.66:1.

That is because the RP-91 only has a single zoom setting, which works for 1.85:1 and wider non-anamorphic discs. If the scaling is used for 1.66:1 non-anamorphic, you will lose more than just subtitles -- part of the film image is also cropped.

To answer Neil's question, I've never bothered to make a list, nor have I seen one. Since the RP-91 allows for a manual selection of the scaling feature, it's never been a big deal to me. I do estimate that about 20-30 of my 70+ 4x3 letterboxed discs are not properly flagged, though.

The biggest oddity I have found, though, is with the recently released Charlie Chaplin Collection titles. Each of these contains full frame material, yet the discs are flagged as letterboxed, which invokes the zoom/scaling on my RP-91, thereby cropping a significant portion of the image. I have to manually override the setting to watch the discs properly. I've never seen this happen with any other full frame titles in my collection.

 

[MarkHastings]

the "flagging" should mean whether the video on the disc has been properly flagged as a "4x3 letterbox" signal.

That's what I was thinking. Can it also be said that the non-anamorphic DVD's aren't "Improperly Flagged", but the fact that they aren't "flagged" at all?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

good point!

The way DVDs are encoded, I'll bet they they are always flagged in some way...and that 4x3 full-frame is the "default" flag.

If this is the case, then it would be valid to consider it "improperly flagged" if the content were indeed 4x3 lbx material.

My understanding is that there are 3 flag options (and a DVD title has to be coded with one of them)

4x3 full-frame
4x3 lbx
16x9

If in fact it's possible for DVD content to exist without any aspect-ratio flagging at all someone who's an expert let us know! (again, just not having to specify an aspect ratio option during disc production doesn't necessarily mean one isn't being used...there very well could be a default aspect ratio flag assigned to content left "generic"--I'll be it's 4x3 full-frame.)

 

[Seth Paxton]

Yeah, David is on it.

And of course the DVD header contains tons of flags beside just the "Anamorphic" flag. That's how they can turn off choices available to you (ever hit the MENU key and get the "denied" message).

Unfortunately my understanding of at least the first couple of years of DVD authoring is that a lot of places basically ignored the Anamorphic flag.

The main use such a flag has to you is when you have your player set to AUTO, where it would TRUST the flag and adjust the output appropriately.

Another dangerous flag for progressive players is the FILM or VIDEO source flag which a player on AUTO (which is what most of us would use rather than switching the player from FILM mode to VIDEO mode all the time manually) will look for and adjust the output to match. Misflag this and you can get some nasty jaggies from incorrect reverse pulldown.

Just because there is a spec and standard doesn't mean everyone will follow it.

David, you will probably get an answer long before then, but I will check in DVD Demystified when I get a chance.

 

[Seth Paxton]

BTW, a list like this would be handy.

 

[Morgan Holly]

Close David, but there isn't a 4x3 lbx flag, there is a 16x9/4x3 lbx flag, a 4x3 flag and a 16x9/4x3 pan-scan flag (for menus mostly).

Names vary from system-to-system, but those are the basics.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Morgan,

Then what's the flag used for 4x3-encoded lbx material that tells my Panny RP 91 to "zoom" automatically?

Whatever it is...it's something that effectively tell's my DVD player that it's got a 4x3 lbxed image that needs to be "zoomed" for my 16x9 TV.

Thoughts?

The flags you mention deal with how the DVD player downconverts the 16x9 material upon playback...but there is something that allows the DVD player to differentiate between 4x3 full frame and 4x3 lbxed material...

 

[Andy_G]

Is it possible that your equipment can "sense" the letterboxing?

 

[Dmitry]

Since automatic "zooming" doesn't happen on all 4x3 lbx titles, I'm inclined to think that sensing has to do with something more than just detecting "black bars" in the image.