Line Conditioning/UPS questions from a newbie (1 Viewer)

[xceebeex]

Hey guys, this is my first post and I have tried reading through a lot of the site to try and find a good answer and there are so many opinions its hard to decide. Anyway, I just picked up a 61" JVC HD-ILA TV to add to my Onkyo HTIB. First I need to determine if a UPS is necessary to help cool down the lamp in case of power outages. (During the summer we often have to power go out briefly) Second, I think I want to get some sort of Power Conditioner. I think I have it narrowed down to 2 options and was just looking for opinions.

Option 1:
Belkin PureAV PF60
Belkin 750VA UPS w/AVR

Option 2:
APC J10(Has the line conditioning and UPS in one unit)

Anyway, I am leaning toward the Belkin option because it looks like it has better filtering and protection, but APC is one of the best companies when it comes to Power so its a toss up.

What do you guys think? Thanks in advance.

 

[Neal_C]

You are definitely going to find opinions both ways in regards to power conditioning. Some like it, some think its a waste of money. I have a Monster unit that I like. Does it improve anything? Can't really tell. Why did I get it? Well, because I was able to get a brick and mortar store in my area to price match an online price that was about 40% off retail...just couldn't pass it up. I also bought it to give me one central place to plug all my equipment in.

If it was me, I would probably get the APC. The power conditioning aspect is probably a wash as far as quality and results go. You should get more backup time with this unit over the Belkin.

One solution you may or may not know about, which I think would also be the best solution for surge protection and power quality, is to install dedicated outlets into your media room and along with that install a whole house surge protection unit in your breaker box.

In my old house, I had a living room setup. I had an electrician come out and install a whole house surge protector(the benefit of this being it protects everything in the house) in my breaker box and install two dedicated 20amp outlets into my living room. The reason for the dedicated outlets is so nothing else is on those two breakers except my home theater equipment. The cost, with labor, was about $250, which I still regard as some of the best money I have spent to date on this hobby.

Oh yes, and couple this with any UPS of your choosing.

Just my two cents...

 

[xceebeex]

Yea, I have been seeing more and more cases where people feel line conditioning is a waste. The Electrical Engineer in me sees the benefits on paper, but am worried if the benefits outweigh the cost.

If that APC unit wasn't more expensive than option one, my mind would have already been made up.

I also plan on replacing the outlets that I plug my home theater stuff into and may at some point run some dedicated breakers for it as well.

Thanks for the help.

 

[homthtr]

The UPS is the Most important especially if you have frequent short power outages in the summer. You will find your bulb life will be very short if not cooled down properly. UPS is for sure a good thing. Line conditioning on the other hand I'm not sold on.

 

[xceebeex]

Yea I am definitely going with a UPS at minimum. I am now leaning toward the APC I think.

 

[homthtr]

That's a good choice as long as price doens't overcome improvement.

 

[xceebeex]

Has anyone built their own line conditioner? Check this link out, I am thinking of trying that out.

www dot 10audio dot com/diy_power_conditioner dot htm
(Done this way since I don't have 10 posts yet, I hope it doesn't offend the mods)

 

[chuckg]

When I began reading about the DIY power conditioner, my snake oil meter went off the scale. At least the author correctly identified the most outrageous claims by the "power conditioner" maker. But then, the author wasted $127 on a simple power strip that you can get from Lowes for $10.

Aaagghh.

If you want to waste money, please put it in an envelope and send it to me. I will take a $35 power strip with Varistors and Capacitors, paint in bright green and put lots of ridiculous claims on it, and only charge $173.95.

An APC UPS with power conditioning will beat the socks off any of the above. And, It will cost less than $150. CAVEAT: your projector uses enough power to waste your UPS batteries in minutes. The UPS should be used only to carry you over brief blurps in power, or only long enough for you to jump up and power down the projector (or big A$$ tv)

By the way, if your components do not have power supplies good enough to get rid of power line wriggles, you need better components.

If you still feel you need better protection, I will happily sell you a "cryo-treated" power cord at only $23 per foot. (my cryo treatment is done overnight in the fridge, so delivery may be delayed if we have lots of ice cream in there already)

Cheers!

 

[xceebeex]

So are you saying its not worth even building your own line conditioner out of a cheap power strip? I am not saying I am going to buy the $200 unit that he did, I would start with a cheap Lowes unit and put on the appropriate varistors and/or caps.

What is a good APC unit that has both a UPS and power conditioning for under $150? All that I am looking for from the UPS is exactly what you said, something enough to get through the very brief outages and/or just enough time for me to power it down the right way.

 

[Neal_C]

Just pick yourself up one of these and be done with it:
http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=250




J/K


I think Chuck was basically saying to just forget about line conditioning and just pick up a UPS with enough battery to give your tv time to properly power down in case of an outage. Just pick up a UPS unit like you would buy for a computer and test it out. Shouldn't cost you more than $100 to $150.

 

[chuckg]

Sorry, folks. I was in a goofy mood yesterday - made me kinda spastic.

The Uninterruptible Power Supplies built by American Power Conditioning (UPS by APC) are excellent. The best also incorporate AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulation) which is far and away better than any power strip with varistors and caps. You can safely plug your big power amplifiers into the non-battery outlets, and save the battery power for the expensive finicky bits.

As Neal says, just lay down a "buck and a half" on an APC UPS with AVR, and be very pleased with yourself!

 

[bassman99floyd]

My HT consists of a Pioneer Elite VSX-47TX, a Rotel Amp for the mains 803's, with 7.1 B&W Nautilus speakers all around. I had the system running for two months, just plugged into a surge protector. Two months later I bought the Richard Gray's (RG) 4 outlet line conditioner. I plugged into it, the receiver, amp, DVD and TV. What a difference it made to my sound system. The clarity it elevated my system to, is totally impressive.

For those writing, saying RG line conditioners don't do much, and are a waste of money, I say to you that your equipment isn't high-end to appreciate the benefit. Bottom line, if you have fairly good equipment, speakers costing thousands then an RG will make a noticeable improvement, and well worth the expense. If your equipment was in the hundreds, an RG is not worth it.

 

[Neal_C]

Bassman,

While I have no doubt that the RG unit helped in your system, I would have to look at your statement in a different light.

For me, if I'm shopping high end (Mark Levinson, Bryston, Krell, Classe, etc) I better not need some power conditioning to make it sound better. The quality of the transformers in those pieces should easily clear up any power problems and probably do a better job of it than the RG unit can.

I would actually take your statement and flip it. If you have equipment that doesn't have as quality of parts, then maybe you would benefit from something like that. But if I'm going to spend the cash on a RG unit, I would probably rather buy a better receiver/amp.

My equipment rundown is this: Rotel 1055 (used as a pre/pro), Rotel 1075 amp, Def. Tech CLR 2002, Def. Tech 2002tl's.

 

[bassman99floyd]

You have an interesting point about quality of the component Neal. I'm telling you my opinion, based on a very noticeable upgrade to my system after I added RG. I had the system running for two months. It sounded great. After I plugged everything into RG, I immediately heard more, cleaner output from my speakers. I repeat, a very noticeable difference.

After reading other post, saying line conditioners are a waste of money I have to disagree. If you added one to your system, you wouldn't be able to say you didn't notice how it helped.

There are line conditioners in all price ranges. I never tried Monster brand, I went right to the best one I could afford,a Richard Gray's line conditioner for $700. I think I heard the price is $500 now.

Neal, go pick one up in a store where you can return it, and then tell me your opinion afterwards. You will be amazed. I know I was.

 

[xceebeex]

Ok guys, I think I may have found what I want to go with. What do you guys think of these 2:

APC BX1300LCD

or

Geek Squad GS-1285U

The Geek Squad one seems to have better specs, but obviously APC is a better company overall. One of the big advantages for the geek squad one is the amount of Joules it can handle. (1800 versus 560 for the APC)

What are your opinions?

 

[xceebeex]

Another option that I am now looking at is the Tripp Lite SMART1500LCD. Any opinions on that as well?

 

[Neal_C]

I think the APC would suit your needs just fine.

 

[xceebeex]

Another unit that I just stumbled across is the PureAV AP30800-10 which is a line conditioner and UPS all in one unit and its less than 200 bucks. Any opinions on that unit?

 

[Neal_C]

I think the PureAV line is pretty solid, probably can't go wrong with it either. All the products are going to be able to do the job you want them to do, so maybe it just comes down to looks for you?