Blu-ray Review Laurel & Hardy – The Definitive Restorations Blu-ray Review (1 Viewer)

[Angelo Colombus]

I saw him too in the boxing scenes thanks to the commentary on the disc.

 

[Robert Harris]

All else aside, the commentaries on these discs are worth the price of admission.

 

[Mark Y]

The re-issue audio can easily be adjusted to shoe-horn into the 1929 picture source used in the set without any "blips" or noticeable distractions.

Or, it could have actually been "restored" using the best and most complete elements for both picture and sound to begin with (i.e. the title, "Definitive Restoration").

I don't feel reassured knowing that the "team" discussed this particular problem, but let it get released in such a sloppy manner, anyway. Perhaps any further releases will employ a team with clearer sense of historical accuracy and judgement.

Okay, I don't have the set (yet) but if I'm understanding correctly, the team was aware that there was an audio sync problem in the reissue version of "Berth Marks," but since that's how it went out to theaters, it was considered correct, just as the 1929 version (with no sync issue) is considered correct, because that's how it was presented to 1929 audiences. Do I have that right?

 

[Tony Bensley]

Okay, I don't have the set (yet) but if I'm understanding correctly, the team was aware that there was an audio sync problem in the reissue version of "Berth Marks," but since that's how it went out to theaters, it was considered correct, just as the 1929 version (with no sync issue) is considered correct, because that's how it was presented to 1929 audiences. Do I have that right?

From what I've read, the audio sync problem for the 1936 BERTH MARKS reissue soundtrack for this release is because it's the 1929 film edit (which apparently differs slightly in length from the reissue print) that's being used.

I have the "Essential Collection" version of the 1936 reissued BERTH MARKS (1929), which has no audio sync issues.

CHEERS!

 

[B-ROLL]

From what I've read, the audio sync problem for the 1936 BERTH MARKS reissue soundtrack for this release is because it's the 1929 film edit (which apparently differs slightly in length from the reissue print) that's being used.

I have the "Essential Collection" version of the 1936 reissued BERTH MARKS (1929), which has no audio sync issues.

CHEERS!

Thanks for the info. I'ld love to give you a Laurel and Hardy Handshake but I'll have to settle with ...

A tip of the hats !

 

[Robbie^Blackmon]

From what I've read, the audio sync problem for the 1936 BERTH MARKS reissue soundtrack for this release is because it's the 1929 film edit (which apparently differs slightly in length from the reissue print) that's being used.

I have the "Essential Collection" version of the 1936 reissued BERTH MARKS (1929), which has no audio sync issues.

CHEERS!

Exactly. According to Mr. Skretvedt's response to an inquiry made on Facebook:

"I know that we went round and round on this and the problem is that the '29 picture source varies a bit from the reissue, so that there are moments in the reissue version when sync slips a bit -- but as far as I can recall, the vast majority of the reissue version is in sync."

The folks working on it knew it was out of sync and just let it be rather than, say, correcting the errors using what they had available, or omitting that re-issue version until proper picture elements could be used.

 

[BobO'Link]

Exactly. According to Mr. Skretvedt's response to an inquiry made on Facebook:

"I know that we went round and round on this and the problem is that the '29 picture source varies a bit from the reissue, so that there are moments in the reissue version when sync slips a bit -- but as far as I can recall, the vast majority of the reissue version is in sync."

The folks working on it knew it was out of sync and just let it be rather than, say, correcting the errors using what they had available, or omitting that re-issue version until proper picture elements could be used.

I just can't get my head wrapped around why they'd just let it go out that way - especially since it has a proper audio track on the "Essential Collection" DVD set. It just seems like a simple thing to me and wouldn't be difficult to do. As has been noted here (or is it the other thread?), there are no audio issues (music/sfx) which would have prevented the audio being properly synced.

Like Tony, I'll just use the DVD set should I want to see that particular version. But I shouldn't have to...

 

[Tony Bensley]

I just can't get my head wrapped around why they'd just let it go out that way - especially since it has a proper audio track on the "Essential Collection" DVD set. It just seems like a simple thing to me and wouldn't be difficult to do. As has been noted here (or is it the other thread?), there are no audio issues (music/sfx) which would have prevented the audio being properly synced.

Like Tony, I'll just use the DVD set should I want to see that particular version. But I shouldn't have to...

I did end up viewing the version with the BERTH MARKS (1926) 1936 Reissue Soundtrack. To my eyes and ears, it was noticeably out of sync from just past the 12 minute mark to 16:38 in, when the audio and video appear to be back in sync, and remains so for the rest of the short.

In addition, I inadvertently got a little perspective this afternoon when viewing a "Dobie Gillis" Season 3 episode (S03:E21 - Birth of a Salesman), in which the Season 1 recurring character Thalia Menninger (Tuesday Weld) returns in a guest spot. The "best available source" disclaimer was apparently for the major out of sync issue which spanned the entire episode, and not only could have been easily rectified (Thus, eliminating the need for ANY disclaimer!), but actually is in fact, perfectly in sync on YouTube!

CHEERS!

 

[Rob W]

My set finally arrived today and I have spent a couple of hours jumping through it. A couple of observations :

It's great to see these films so clean and steady compared to older prints with speckles, scratches, tears and gate weave. It's miraculous to see the texture of the backgrounds behind the various razor-sharp titles and intro cards which were usually contrasty messes on previous incarnations. I won't wade in to the "doesn't look like film" debate as it is seldom as bad as I feared but I understand the argument.

Having original titles on everything is nirvana for some of us. Anyone who started with Blackhawk Films remembers they cut off all original titles and replaced them with their generic ones for most of their releases, with original titles starting to sneak in for select subjects at the very end of the format's life.

Randy's Super 8 sound interviews with various Roach employees and stars are wonderful.

In the galleries for Way Out West there is a black and white image of what is described as a window card for WOW; this appears to be an error as window cards were not nearly as tall and had a healthy amount of blank space at the top of the advertising for theatres to print their names and the dates of the engagement , as the cards were designed to be displayed in the windows of local merchants (hence the name 'window card' ). What's there is actually a black and white image of the insert (approx. 14" by 34 ") for WOW ( which I just happen to have hanging on my wall ).

And the galleries for Scram have a black and white image (from the pressbook) of the one-sheet poster; here is the full-color version ( which also happens to be hanging on my wall )

 

[Tino]

I’ve finished the first disc and am enjoying this set. Feel like I’m meeting L&H for the first time.

 

[BobO'Link]

I just received a shipping notice from DD... now the *real* waiting starts.

 

[Tino]

I thought Sons Of The Desert was OK but I’m really enjoying the shorts! On disc 2 now.

 

[BobO'Link]

I finally got around to watching some of this set. I'm on disc 3 and so far agree 100% with Robert Harris' assessment of the PQ. Overall, most look better than I've ever seen them with uniformly good sound.

That's the good part.

IMHO the presentation (menu/authoring) appears to be the work of amateurs who've never worked on a major release.

The L&H Theme plays over the menu on a repeat loop. It's louder than the shorts. It's quite annoying.

There's no "Play All" function.

The main menu has "pop ups" for sub menus rather than proper sub menus for selections. It works, but is less than optimum.

When a short has completed you're dumped on the main menu and have to press a button to select the shorts sub-menu again and then select your next short. The system doesn't automatically select the next for you, instead putting you back at the top of the list requiring you to have to scroll down/up to the short you want.

If you're making your selection and the "animation loop" gets to the end it dumps you out and back to the main menu. More than once I've been slow about making a selection, or been exploring the other sub-menus, open a sub-menu, scrolled to what I want, and *just before* I press play the menu loop ends and dumps me back at the main menu.

I'm not generally a fan of "commentary" tracks. More often than not I find the information imparted would work better as an essay. That's the case here for me. When it comes right down to it, I like the information in most of the commentaries I've sampled but would rather have had it as printed essays in a nice booklet. I could then read them at my leisure in 1/4 or less of the time it takes to listen to them. That means I'll listen to some of them once, a few partially, and likely never listen to any of them a 2nd time. A booklet I'd read several times and likely use as a reference.

More than 1 commentary track is significantly longer than the short (maybe this is why there's no "Play All"). This implies that the information on the longer ones is more general in nature and not fully referencing what's on screen (the one on Music Box is - at least what parts I've sampled). Most of those I've sample are essentially "podcasts" about the short that's playing with little reason for it to be slaved to the short at all.

Audio level of the commentaries is all over the place. Some the same, some higher, some lower than the associated short necessitating a volume change. While that, by itself, isn't so bad it's when you've had to turn the volume up for a soft one and that main menu pops up with its already blaring music, it now blows your hair back.

Audio levels on the shorts are inconsistent. That is, set it for one and the next may be too soft.

The much touted photos are presented with *zero* chapter stops. One displays for a few seconds and dissolves into the next. And they have a description at the head that *scrolls* rather than be several pages of static text. That means I'll never look as these as using FF/RW controls to move through them is wonky at best. That's a shame as the few i've bothered sampling have some interesting material. The hassle of viewing it just isn't worth the return.

Some have the added "digital version" credits at the head, others at the tail. All added credits belong on the tail.

All in all, the PQ of the shorts wins the day and relegates the rest to annoyances but not deal breakers. Still, should there be another volume I hope they do a better job with the supplimental materials and authoring. And for goodness' sake, include a booklet!

 

[B-ROLL]

I finally got around to watching some of this set. I'm on disc 3 and so far agree 100% with Robert Harris' assessment of the PQ. Overall, most look better than I've ever seen them with uniformly good sound.

That's the good part.

IMHO the presentation (menu/authoring) appears to be the work of amateurs who've never worked on a major release.

The L&H Theme plays over the menu on a repeat loop. It's louder than the shorts. It's quite annoying.

There's no "Play All" function.

The main menu has "pop ups" for sub menus rather than proper sub menus for selections. It works, but is less than optimum.

When a short has completed you're dumped on the main menu and have to press a button to select the shorts sub-menu again and then select your next short. The system doesn't automatically select the next for you, instead putting you back at the top of the list requiring you to have to scroll down/up to the short you want.

If you're making your selection and the "animation loop" gets to the end it dumps you out and back to the main menu. More than once I've been slow about making a selection, or been exploring the other sub-menus, open a sub-menu, scrolled to what I want, and *just before* I press play the menu loop ends and dumps me back at the main menu.

I'm not generally a fan of "commentary" tracks. More often than not I find the information imparted would work better as an essay. That's the case here for me. When it comes right down to it, I like the information in most of the commentaries I've sampled but would rather have had it as printed essays in a nice booklet. I could then read them at my leisure in 1/4 or less of the time it takes to listen to them. That means I'll listen to some of them once, a few partially, and likely never listen to any of them a 2nd time. A booklet I'd read several times and likely use as a reference.

More than 1 commentary track is significantly longer than the short (maybe this is why there's no "Play All"). This implies that the information on the longer ones is more general in nature and not fully referencing what's on screen (the one on Music Box is - at least what parts I've sampled). Most of those I've sample are essentially "podcasts" about the short that's playing with little reason for it to be slaved to the short at all.

Audio level of the commentaries is all over the place. Some the same, some higher, some lower than the associated short necessitating a volume change. While that, by itself, isn't so bad it's when you've had to turn the volume up for a soft one and that main menu pops up with its already blaring music, it now blows your hair back.

Audio levels on the shorts are inconsistent. That is, set it for one and the next may be too soft.

The much touted photos are presented with *zero* chapter stops. One displays for a few seconds and dissolves into the next. And they have a description at the head that *scrolls* rather than be several pages of static text. That means I'll never look as these as using FF/RW controls to move through them is wonky at best. That's a shame as the few i've bothered sampling have some interesting material. The hassle of viewing it just isn't worth the return.

Some have the added "digital version" credits at the head, others at the tail. All added credits belong on the tail.

All in all, the PQ of the shorts wins the day and relegates the rest to annoyances but not deal breakers. Still, should there be another volume I hope they do a better job with the supplimental materials and authoring. And for goodness' sake, include a booklet!

With regard to the photo galleries... I found it best to have my finger over the pause button. This was specially especially true for the descriptions that come before the photos.

I would have preferred a "play with audio commentary? option instead of the long process it took to get to the commentaries. In general, I liked to play the films first and then listen to the commentary. Unfortunately, if you listen to a commentary, it stays in commentary mode for the next film unless you change it.

Obviously, despite the picture and other issues, this is an essential set. I hope there will be a Volume Two ... !

 

[BobO'Link]

With regard to the photo galleries... I found it best to have my finger over the pause button. This was specially especially true for the descriptions that come before the photos.

I read much faster than that scroll runs - I'm normally to the bottom and waiting for it to start before it actually does. I like the skip option simply because if a photo is uninteresting or I've seen enough in a second or two I can *easily* skip to the next. Pause is always an option. I'm not going to FF through the photos to look for one and then have to RW when I've invariably gone too fast and missed the one I want. I never saw a description of an individual photo - but that could be due to me looking at a couple of those sequences, finding no chapter stops, and totally ignoring them at that point (and going forward) due to the implementation.

The way it's done on this release is a poorly executed method. Always has been.

I would have preferred a "play with audio commentary? option instead of the long process it took to get to the commentaries. In general, I liked to play the films first and then listen to the commentary. Unfortunately, if you listen to a commentary, it stays in commentary mode for the next film unless you change it.

Yes, having that option with the short would be better than the menu method on this release. I looked at the "setup" menu and immediately dismissed it. I normally just use my remote for those changes as it's generally faster and easier than almost all menu methods.

 

[BobO'Link]

After seeing the simply spectacular results from @ClassicFlix on the Little Rascals remasters I'm wishing they could get the original masters, before those 3rd parties "clean up" was done, from UCLA/LoC and do this release again. I'm sure they could improve on it, especially with sound levels, menu design, and commentary integration. I'd absolutely purchase it again should that happen. And then turn them loose on the rest of the L&H catalog...

 

[Traveling Matt]

I'd love to finally buy these films in high def as I'm still avoiding the current release.

A CF release would mostly likely entail an avoidance of the addt'l... adjustments made by this current publisher, no?

 

[Tony Bensley]

Here's my "Laurel & Hardy: The Definitive Restorations and The Essential Collection Comparisons" Facebook group for those who might be interested in taking a look:

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CHEERS!

 

[Tony Bensley]

I just can't get my head wrapped around why they'd just let it go out that way - especially since it has a proper audio track on the "Essential Collection" DVD set. It just seems like a simple thing to me and wouldn't be difficult to do. As has been noted here (or is it the other thread?), there are no audio issues (music/sfx) which would have prevented the audio being properly synced.

Like Tony, I'll just use the DVD set should I want to see that particular version. But I shouldn't have to...

I did end up viewing the version with the BERTH MARKS (1926) 1936 Reissue Soundtrack. To my eyes and ears, it was noticeably out of sync from just past the 12 minute mark to 16:38 in, when the audio and video appear to be back in sync, and remains so for the rest of the short.

In addition, I inadvertently got a little perspective this afternoon when viewing a "Dobie Gillis" Season 3 episode (S03:E21 - Birth of a Salesman), in which the Season 1 recurring character Thalia Menninger (Tuesday Weld) returns in a guest spot. The "best available source" disclaimer was apparently for the major out of sync issue which spanned the entire episode, and not only could have been easily rectified (Thus, eliminating the need for ANY disclaimer!), but actually is in fact, perfectly in sync on YouTube!

CHEERS!

It just occurred to me, and I might be misremembering this, but I seem to recall BERTH MARKS (1929) being one of those shorts that in previous releases had black frames inserted in certain places in order for the audio and visual to sync up properly. I know that I've read about this method having been employed for some films.

CHEERS!

 

[PMF]

After seeing the simply spectacular results from @ClassicFlix on the Little Rascals remasters I'm wishing they could get the original masters, before those 3rd parties "clean up" was done, from UCLA/LoC and do this release again. I'm sure they could improve on it, especially with sound levels, menu design, and commentary integration. I'd absolutely purchase it again should that happen. And then turn them loose on the rest of the L&H catalog...

BobO’ Link’s post dares to address my very own self-silenced thoughts. I agree wholeheartedly.

As I champion all acts towards film restoration, I also expect to see a flawless presentation in matters that are preventable and not inherent in the elements being handled.

ClassicFlix showed up with their Little Rascals project at roughly the same time, and comparisons to both of these collosal Hal Roach endeavors can not help but to be drawn up. Indeed, ClassicFlix has won hands down and wins the day.

I admire ever so greatly the larger overview and pursuits of this Laurel and Hardy project, but I am not confident that the balanced and technically diagnostic critiques, as read on-line, were embraced or even welcomed without defensive push-backs from one of the individuals who had worked on this project.

Alas, the dust has settled and the learning curves have hopefully been digested and are currently being applied towards a comeback for Volume 2. YES, a Volume 2 of Laurel and Hardy needs to occur - but if not, then let the good folks at ClassicFlix take the baton.

Indeed, when it comes to Hal Roach, ClassicFlix owns the track, the field and even the bleachers.