Tony Bensley

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I noticed a slight out-of-sync issue in WAY OUT WEST at the start of their dance number in front of the projected screen. It's when the Avalon Boys are singing. The guy that does the low-end yodels is out of sync for a few seconds.

It's very slight. Didn't put much thought to it until you guys brought up sync issues.
Non technical related Lip Sync issues for musical bits, especially in group settings are so common across the board, anyway. I'd be willing to bet that that Chill Wills out of sync bit is in EVERY "Way Out West (1937)" print.

CHEERS! :)
 
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Tony Bensley

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Right, so what I've "found", here, is an interesting, quite innocent and not naughty example of this sync business from the new Sprocket Vault dvd. The first part of the clip is the film as presented on the dvd, the second is the sync shifted to correct the issue, and the third part is both the bits of audio together with the picture, further illustrating the offset of the elements.


It really is quite drastic, and the problem is exactly the same on the Blu Ray.
After posting the above on Facebook, Randy Skretvedt posting the following response:

Randy Skretvedt Tony, I know that we went round and round on this and the problem is that the '29 picture source varies a bit from the reissue, so that there are moments in the reissue version when sync slips a bit -- but as far as I can recall, the vast majority of the reissue version is in sync.

So there you have it!

CHEERS! :)
 

Robbie^Blackmon

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After posting the above on Facebook, Randy Skretvedt posting the following response:

Randy Skretvedt Tony, I know that we went round and round on this and the problem is that the '29 picture source varies a bit from the reissue, so that there are moments in the reissue version when sync slips a bit -- but as far as I can recall, the vast majority of the reissue version is in sync.

So there you have it!

CHEERS! :)
In that case, this new release of the re-issue version is known to be flawed, was not corrected and, as such, may not be considered a restoration and should not have been included in a collection of "definitive restorations".
 

Robbie^Blackmon

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Non technical related Lip Sync issues for musical bits, especially in group settings are so common across the board, anyway. I'd be willing to bet that that Chill Wills out of sync bit is in EVERY "Way Out West (1937)" print.

CHEERS! :)
That establishing shot of The Avalon Boys outside the saloon has always been a little "off". It looks to have been flown in from a different verse or take, as the rhythm is off a skosh, as well. But, this one is baked-in to the original release.
 
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BobO'Link

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After posting the above on Facebook, Randy Skretvedt posting the following response:

Randy Skretvedt Tony, I know that we went round and round on this and the problem is that the '29 picture source varies a bit from the reissue, so that there are moments in the reissue version when sync slips a bit -- but as far as I can recall, the vast majority of the reissue version is in sync.

So there you have it!

CHEERS! :)
The thing is, it *could* and *should* have been fixed. I'd rather have a "blip" in a soundtrack to adjust timing than lip sync that's off - even by a millisecond.
 

Robbie^Blackmon

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The thing is, it *could* and *should* have been fixed. I'd rather have a "blip" in a soundtrack to adjust timing than lip sync that's off - even by a millisecond.
The re-issue audio can easily be adjusted to shoe-horn into the 1929 picture source used in the set without any "blips" or noticeable distractions.

Or, it could have actually been "restored" using the best and most complete elements for both picture and sound to begin with (i.e. the title, "Definitive Restoration").

I don't feel reassured knowing that the "team" discussed this particular problem, but let it get released in such a sloppy manner, anyway. Perhaps any further releases will employ a team with clearer sense of historical accuracy and judgement.
 
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Rob W

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Perhaps any further releases will employ a team with clearer sense of historical accuracy and judgement.
Based on the way they've been treated on these forums, I wouldn't be surprised if the team decided to abandon the rest of the series for DVD and Blu. Mistakes are one thing; dismissive insults are another.

And for the record, there won't be another team with the knowledge and history of the boys willing to do as much as these guys did for this release, since I can guarantee nobody is getting rich off of this project.
 

B-ROLL

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Non technical related Lip Sync issues for musical bits, especially in group settings are so common across the board, anyway. I'd be willing to bet that that Chill Wills out of sync bit is in EVERY "Way Out West (1937)" print.

CHEERS! :)
It was that way in a VHS version ca.1980. I understand that either the reel or the film (or both) was too short and the filler song was added in post-production. The exterior set was not available, so the rear-projection shots were created with the lads. Their "job" editorially was to cover up the sync/performance issues, as the song was shot several times with one camera...
 

Robbie^Blackmon

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Based on the way they've been treated on these forums, I wouldn't be surprised if the team decided to abandon the rest of the series for DVD and Blu. Mistakes are one thing; dismissive insults are another.

And for the record, there won't be another team with the knowledge and history of the boys willing to do as much as these guys did for this release, since I can guarantee nobody is getting rich off of this project.
Duly noted. However, I stand behind my criticism of the technical side of this release as more than dismissive or insulting, harsh as it may seem.

There's good and bad in the set, plenty to enjoy and treasure right alongside a number of gripes. As such, I would argue that knowingly letting the sync issue slide by is indicative of bad judgement, especially when the outcome is supposed to reflect a "definitive restoration".

A life-long fan of Laurel and Hardy, I bought the dvd and the Blu-ray expecting plenty and where the collection is good, it excels! I love the commentaries, the galleries and extra film interviews, and the information, enthusiasm and love expressed by Mr. Skretvedt and Mr. Bann for the material in the commentary is, all at once, insightful, inspiring and extremely valuable. The content of the films is still what it was when I first discovered them at a very young age-- priceless!

Still, the picture quality is often lacking where it maybe, just maybe, need not be and, well, that's half the story, isn't it?

Others have noticed, too, so the varying picture quality is a very big issue. More for some than others.

I expected more from the presentation. If there is another set, I hope it is approached differently from the technical (audio/visual) side.
 
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mark brown

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While we appreciate the fans’ zeal, it is a shame the hard work of a lifetime of UCLA and many others was so diminished by this maelstrom of criticism which can only harm future efforts.
 
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Tino

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Based on the way they've been treated on these forum
They’ve been treated?? It all started with their dismissive insults of RAH and his opinion of this set. They chose to respond in a rude disrespectful manner and brought on the subsequent like comments themselves.
If you can’t stand the heat.....
 

TheSteig

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I watched Berth Marks the 1929 version and I had a freeze up on the menu when I selected it. I finally pressed play which worked and I found myself already 2 minutes into it (it skipped the intro) .
Has anyone had that issue with the 1929 Berth Marks ?
I havent watched the 1936 reissue yet because Im not a back to back kind of a guy but I now feel an urgent need to watch the rest to make sure there's no other issues on the other discs!
 

Ronald Epstein

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I watched Berth Marks the 1929 version and I had a freeze up on the menu when I selected it. I finally pressed play which worked and I found myself already 2 minutes into it (it skipped the intro) .
Has anyone had that issue with the 1929 Berth Marks ?
I havent watched the 1936 reissue yet because Im not a back to back kind of a guy but I now feel an urgent need to watch the rest to make sure there's no other issues on the other discs!
Which disc is it on? I noticed (or perhaps I didn't) there's no book with chapter marks. I could be wrong about that.

I can take a look here as I have the set already next to my player
 
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TheSteig

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Disc 1, Berth Marks 1929

The option underneath Battle of the Century to be specific

I hope that it's just mine to be honest, the uproar for this issue would be outrageous ..
 

Tony Bensley

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Disc 1, Berth Marks 1929

The option underneath Battle of the Century to be specific

I hope that it's just mine to be honest, the uproar for this issue would be outrageous ..
Since I've read about others having viewed both versions of BERTH MARKS (1929) who only post about the out of sync issues with the 1936 soundtrack and report the 1929 soundtrack being in sync all the way through, it sounds to me like a somewhat defective disc, in your case. I'm sorry that happened to you! :(

Hopefully, you can arrange a relatively painless trade in for that disc. Good luck!

CHEERS! :)
 

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