"large" setting hurting sub? (1 Viewer)

[DerekCV]

I know that the standard is to put your mains on “small” and let your sub do the work… however I get good bass out of my mains (HTD level 3 towers, crossed at 50Hz until I hook up the sub, then I might bring it up higher). Am I going to limit my subs performance by having my mains set to large? I hear that doing that will not always send the signal to the sub… is that the case? Also in my receiver setup it has the option of “yes”, “no” and “plus” under the subwoofer settings… I was confused as to what the plus meant. Anyone have a suggestion?

 

[MaxL]

i don't know what the plus setting is but i will give you a couple related reasons to set the speakers to small. in general when producing a sound at a given volume, the lower the sound the more power is needed form the amp. that is one of the primary reasons for using powered subs in the first place. so if you knock everything from 80 or 100hz off your amp's plate, it has a lot more power to play with, which should translate to better overall sound for the system. also low frequency sounds are more likely to resonate and distort your woofers and enclosures creating real distortion in the sound you hear (maybe subtle). if those frequencies are being delivered to the sub, again, cleaner overall sound for the system.

 

[John Garcia]

No it won't hurt your sub. Yes you will be limiting what is sent to the sub by setting the mains to large, but the bass from any other channels set to small will still be redirected to the sub. I agree with everything Max said as well.

 

[JohnRice]

Make that three. There are many reasons to set the mains to small. If you have all speakers set to small, I don't think the plus setting makes a difference, but the implementing of that mode may vary.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I bet the plus setting means that if the speakers are set to "large", that it still send bass to the sub as *if* the setting was small. This bad for a few reasons. a) It's not what the soundtrack/CD producer mixed. You are effectively "doubling" the bass which is not real. b) You *will* have more phase issues (comb filtering), again because those low freqs are not meant to be coming from 3 places at once.

 

[DerekCV]

thanks for the advice... I'm still trying to dial in my sub (pb12-plus2)... I used my recievers tones to adjust the levels, everything to 75-75 dB, but i bumped the sub up a few because i love base.... I'm just not getting the punch in the back of the head that some people describe. I think i need to learn to play with the PEQ on it. It does go loud, just not as tight as i would like right now.

 

[JohnRice]

You also may need to adjust the phase. The sub will definitely make your head rattle, but the really low frequencies don't tend to come from where you think. Try different material. If you have the recent War of the Worlds, play the scene where the aliens first appear from underground. If that doesn't make you shake, there is something wrong.

 

[MikeNg]

"Punch in the head" bass is not super deep, infrasonic bass. I think you need to adjust the PEQ if it doesn't sound just right. You could have placement issues too. Have you tried other locations in the room? In order to do it right you'll also need an SPL meter.

What Kevin said about 'plus'. I think he's right.

 

[DerekCV]

how do i adjust my PEQ... i have heard about using an SPL meter and excel... I just havent found a good write up on it yet. is it somthing that I can tune by ear using a 40hz sine wave or somthing... i have an old test CD from my car stereo days....

 

[Guy Usher]

I too love good bass and I buy DVDs for that reason however the truly neat stuff ain't in every movie. . .I know many many movies that have only a few seconds of what you are after in the entire movie.

As far as the 'plus' setting goes try it you might like it. . .It works well in my room. . .kinda warms it up a little. I use it mostly with my DVR not all that great for sound tracks unless I seek out only the good sound tracks to record.

Not sure what your experience is with subs but from what you bought (plus/2) you certainly made a wise choice. I can tell you from experience that it will kick you in the head if called upon to do so. . .

Let her 'burn in' for a week or so. . . you will start to notice where you can tweak it more to your likeing. . . I don't know how many times I thought I had it right when only to get up the next day turn it on and have it sound like crap. . .Take a break from it every so often. . .You'll get it right. . .

Start with standard positions and standard settings at first. If you had a sub prior try those settings to start. . . Phase can get tricky. . .Use your meter and leave it set where it is loudest for the most part. . .

Sounds like you should start with all ports open at first. . .Leave your PEQ flat at first. . .Chances are good that you will not need it anyway unless you have a big room bump or null. . .You will get more volume that way. . .You can always pull it down later. . .I ran mine at the 20Hz setting and had no shortage of bass that 'moved' you and the house plus the neighbors house. . .

Your ear is good for gross changes but be careful your ears don't fool you. . .Once you get it where you hear it loud and clear you can dial it in with test tones and a meter. . .

 

[JohnRice]

One other thing, it is very common once someone experiences a truly good sub for the first time to be disappointed because it doesn't just slam them at every moment. A good sub reproduces only the bass that is there, bad ones pound you constantly. With a good sub, when the real bass hits, it is clean and powerful, and blows your mind. There are also a LOT of room interaction issues with bass. That sub is absolutely capable, so be certain it is not the problem.

 

[ChrisWiggles]

You need to set those speakers to small. They are not close to being capable of handling heavy low bass that may come through in the main channels, and your SVS is way way more competent at dealing with that.

Again, unless your speakers weigh more than your car, you probably should set them small and let an appropriate subwoofer handle the low bass.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

It won’t limit your sub’s performance, but it will most likely give you worse low frequency response than you’d get with only the sub.

For instance, your speakers, good as they are, are not going to play as low as the sub will. For the sake of argument let’s say they roll out below 30 Hz. From 30 Hz and up, you’ll have three speakers producing bass. Below 30 Hz, you’ll only have one. This means that everything below 30 Hz will be overpowered by everything above. Make sense?

Typically, when you run extra bass transducers that aren’t matched, the lesser transducer ends up “dumbing down” overall response.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Greg Bright]

May I interject an alternative viewpoint? If, and only if, your towers are good (down 3dB at, say, 25-30 Hz) to really low frequencies, then running them on "large" on purely stereo, SACD or DVD-A music may not be a bad thing. It's the only way to get "stereo bass", for example. Such a creature does exist on some recording. And on most music one won't need the sub anyway if the towers meet the above criteria.

I freely admit to running my powered towers on "large" all the time because my receiver has no adjustable crossovers, and the 350wpc amp driving them rarely runs out of headroom.

Just some thoughts

Greg

 

[JohnRice]

By the same token, my mains are flat (and I mean truly flat, within 1.5dB at 29Hz) lower than most and are driven with over 400 wpc, and I run them on small.

 

[Greg Bright]

What is your crossover point between your mains and sub? Mine is a non-adjustable 100 Hz. And when I listen to stereo music the sub is off (except for Mahler, ELP, and pipe organ).

 

[JohnRice]

Greg, unfortunately the lowest crossover my receiver has is 85Hz. Ideally, I would set it a bit lower than that, around 70-60Hz. Since the speakers are all set for small, the sub works in all modes from all sources, so music, which I always listen to in Direct mode, still uses the sub.

 

[bobbyg2]

I would set my receiver at around 100-150 hz. And let my subwoofer grab the below.

 

[MaxL]

150 is a bit high IMO. many HTIB sub sat solutions xover around 120-150hz and the subs start to become more localized. my xover is set at 100hz, older receiver, not adjustable. i'd like to try it around 80hz w/ bookshelves. but i can't say i have any complaints about my sound now.

 

[ThomasC]

Ditto. My receiver (Sherwood RD-6105) also has a non-adjustable 100Hz crossover and as far as I can tell, it works just fine for me.