Joe Six-Pack came to my garage sale today (1 Viewer)

[Colin Jacobson]

I thought the scale was shifted higher than that. I didn't realize that 100 was the pre-chosen median score. My memory had the scale shifted upward somewhat as I thought the impared levels began around 90, which is wrong of course.

What DOES happen is that older tests become less representative of the average. For example, as a school psychologist I commonly use the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children - Third Edition (WISC-III). When it came into use about a decade ago, it started to replace the WISC-R, which had been normed many years earlier. Contrary to popular belief, IQs have slowly gone up over the years, so a 100 on the WISC-III is generally tougher to get than a 100 on the WISC-R. When retested on the WISC-III, kids tended to score a bit lower than they did on the WISC-R.
The older the test, the more pronounced the difference. As such, what earns a 100 today would have gotten something higher 20 years ago, but by definition, 100 remains average...
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Colin Jacobson
DVD Movie Guide
www.dvdmg.com

 

[Clinton McClure]

Sorry, Larue...Wrong Clinton. I go for the attractive women.

Samuel, I'm sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I did not have a holier-that-thou attitude (hell, I wasn't the one putting the poor girl through 9 shades of hell when she was trying to do her job) however, I did have proven fact that 16x9 is better than 4:3.
I also was not petitioning for support for the tearing of the dollar, I was only thanking Scott for realising that the dollar could be taped back together.

And why in the world do you think anyone OWES you his/her attention? Did we all sign-up for your course and not do our homework? Are you an heretofore unknown the world should acknowledge as the leading expert in home entertainment? Or are you just a fan, like the rest of us?

I don't believe anyone owes me their attention. (I was invited into the conversation by the guy when he asked which I preferred, 4:3 or 16x9.) I don't believe you owe me your attention, but I'd like to think you would listen to me if I was trying to explain something, as I would give my attention and listen to what you have to say. I did listen to the guy before the monitary example took place.
I readily admit I do not know as much about HT as some others here on the Forum. I also realize 4:3 is a choice, just like 16x9 is a choice. I wasn't trying to bully him into changing sides, afterall I did give him another dollar.
I am simply a fan, just like the rest here, and I'd like to think I learned just as much from that experience as the other guy did. It was several months ago and I have not done it again. I still run into the occasional die-hard 4:3 fan and talk with them. I listen the what they have to say and they listen to what I have to say. If they buy into WS, fine. If not, that's their choice. I go no further than that now.
I frequent Best Buy often (often enough to know the HT employees by name now) and since that incident, I haven't happened upon anyone else who has given an employee as hard a time as that guy did. (I guess I had a soft spot for the employee b/c I used to work retail and had to put up with all sorts of assholes, and I jumped in because the guy was just being absolutely brutal to her about it and I felt a need to help her out.)
I was not trying to cause an uproar on the Forum for actions taken months ago, I was only posting a story in relation to the topic. I'm sorry if I offended anyone or caused any grief.
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You bought fish boots...

 

[Mohsen Sadeghi]

Seth Paxton wrote:

Again, go into Burger King and DEMAND a Big Mac. Then get back to me on how well that goes over. That is an option that they DO NOT OFFER, and amazingly they won't be nearly as receptive to your demand in that area.

I think you are getting the wrong conclusion from your example. The situation is actually more like this: people are going to BK, demand Big Mac and they get it. People ask for P&S and studios are more than happy to provide it. Now you can stand at BK door and tell people: You should not ask for Big Mac. They will say" None of your damn business. I get what I want, it is something between me and BK".
Most of anger about P&S on this forum is misdirected towards the consumer. It is the studios that are to blame. I know the usual excuse" they only care about money". It is definitely true, they do care about money. But is not that exactly why the protest should be directed at whoever makes the P&S available? After all, they have the choice to say no to the masses. There is no point arguing with somebody who is getting what he wants. He has already won the game.

 

[Nick Pudar]

I have an idea for the Studio Execs to try for some real life market research... and it might educate J6P.
For the next big release, have some select theaters offer the movie in two formats: 1) widescreen (as the director intended it with the whole picture) and 2) P&S (as it would appear formatted to fit your television). The films should start at the same time, side by side, and the ticket buyers should be made aware of the difference.
Then just count the number of people that go into each theater.
Nick

 

[Doug Pyle]

The Burger King analogy is closer to one exemplified by my friend, who always orders her whopper "without meat, please." That's P&S/Open Matte for you.
(She is, by the way, a Burger King employee. Makes one think.)
P&S is a little like masterbation. It's okay in the privacy of your own home, just don't make me have to watch it.
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• May you be happy and well!

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Hey,
I couldn't help but read the first page and skip to the back page to add my two cents. I heard some scary things earlier. First off, this is a business. We HT fans provide a significant amount of revenue to studios and they know it. We don't provide as much as the non-HT fans out there put together though. So, in comes J6P, as he is called on this forum, and he starts buying DVD's. But I'll get back to that. When I left college a while back, Fox put out their first "special" WS videotapes. I had my first Home Theater (using a VCR - hey, I was clueless...I upgraded 9 months later). These tapes were great; I was a proponent of WS, and I bragged to everyone about the advantages. What made these tapes important was the VISUAL EXPLANATION at the beginning about the difference between WS and P&S. And make no mistake, the lesson stuck with me. I am angered at Warner w/Wonka, but that is tempered by their early adoption of the format. I remember when Disney (& Fox & Paramount, etc...) DVD's were a myth, and looked like they always would be. And I respect what I have heard in relation to their defiance of Blockbuster. I'll purchase Swordfish for that reason alone. But to stop my meandering, J6P is the future. He has to be educated. He CAN become more discerning. I am happy DVD is not a "niche" format. We would have far fewer special editions. My beloved Fight Club might not exist. I understand the frustration that the ignorant people mentioned earlier in the post caused. But they are bad examples. Some people are ornery to be ornery. Being elitists about it won't help anyone. If arguing won't help a specific person, don't argue. But many people will listen. And they will WATCH! So show them when you can. Introduce younger people to the glory of WS. Educate the masses. Maybe then better movies will get made, too And Warner will come around eventually on Wonka. Anyways, sorry for the long-winded opinion. DVD's mass-acceptance has been a great thing for the home entertainment industry, IMO. Take care...
(as he ducks the incoming fusillades...)

 

[Lanny Hoff]

By God, I agree with Chuck. DVD is still a young format, the movies that are being screwed up like Wonka will probably be revisited many times in the future and gradually we will see the format improve. Or change completely. Or go away and be replaced with something better. Occasionally a backwards step will be taken, but if we are constant in our support of what we prefer, eventually we will get it.
To me that means we should put pressure on studios which produce DVD and not necessarily on everyone around us who doesn't "see the light" of widescreen. When I had a 20" TV, I hated WS movies. Sure, I knew at the time that it was the right way for the film to be presented, but looking at an image with 5" tall people from about 10' away was unfulfilling to say the least. This is where these folks are coming from.
A few people here are pissed off that full frame fans are so stubborn and difficult to educate, and that's the real problem, not that they actually prefer full frame. Why do you guys get so worked up about this? After all, aren't you just as stubborn and difficult to educate from their perspective? Imagine their disdain for what they could describe as "snobby bastards" when they find out you don't agree with them or take the time to see their point.
A lot of people on this forum spend a lot of time and energy defending the "artistic vision" of the filmmaker. I think that's great and all, but what about patrons rights? As a consumer of art, we have the right to reject that which displeases us or, in the case of DVD, we have the right to change whatever we wish about it once we own a copy and can view it in the comfort of our own home.
Art is a business like any other, and survives or dies on the horns of the stampeding public herd. Imagine I am the chef at a four star Michelin-rated restaurant. You come into my restaurant and order a dish that I prepare exactly the way I want you to have it. Once it reaches the table, you taste it and decide that it needs more salt. Because I believe in my artistic vision (the food), I deny you your seasoning and I fully expect you to understand and accept this limitation with no complaints. I don't know about anyone else, but if some jackass chef told me that I couldn't add salt to a meal that I paid hard-earned cash for, I'd be a little upset.
It all boils down to this: we all have preferences, and they are all legitimate. Why should anyone impose their ideas on others, be it the restaurant patron above, or "J6P", as non-HT savvy people have become known (somewhat snottily) on this forum? I say mind your own business, remind the DVD industry with $$ what your preferences are, and leave it at that.

 

[Jonathan Perregaux]

LOFL!!!
The last HTF post that made me laugh like that was when somebody brought up "War Wars: The War War." (You can guess which thread that was in.)
Seriously, that has got the be the most masterful widescreen demonstration ever conceived. I bet the look on that guy's face was priceless. Wow. Such intelligence. Such incisiveness. Such effectiveness. Such balls. I'm surprised he didn't pop you in the mouth for doing that.

I held it up so he could see the whole dollar and said "Widescreen." Then I carefully folded it into thirds and ripped off the two outside sections. I handed it back to him and said, "4:3." Then I handed him the two pieces I tore off and said, "Move them around for pan & scan."

Classic. Just classic.
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[AaronMK]

Sorry double post. Please delete.
[Edited last by AaronMK on August 14, 2001 at 12:09 AM]

 

[AaronMK]

If what we cared about was the masses preferring OAR, than we would have had this discussion long ago. I don't care if more people prefer P&S. The fight is not to get J6P to prefer OAR, it is to prevent their preference (P&S) from causing us not to get ours (OAR).
Another thing. J6P may not be the best term, but I am not going to replace it with "those who have only an average interest and/or appreciation for a particular hobby whose views and knowledge may tend differ from those with a greater interest and/or appreciation of that hobby" every time that is what I am referring to. In a motorcycle, travel, golf, or any other forum where I would fit that description, please feel free to refer to me as a J6P.
Burgers and cars are good analogies. With burgers you can buy them with or without pickles. With cars you can get either manual or automatic transmission. What other people want on their burgers does not prevent me from getting what I want on mine. The greater popularity of automatic transmission on a given model would not prevent me from being able to buy that same model with manual transmission. If these markets cater to so many different preferences, why is it so hard for the home video market. Why can't they make separate OAR and P&S releases.
How did the burger example get warped into expecting to be able to order a Big Mac at Burger King. That would be more analogous to expecting Columbia to release Forrest Gump.

 

[William Ward]

As a consumer of art, we have the right to reject that which displeases us or, in the case of DVD, we have the right to change whatever we wish about it once we own a copy and can view it in the comfort of our own home.

Very good point. Once the film is in someone's possesion after purchasing it, they are free to do as they wish. This is why many DVD players have a Zoom feature.
But!!
When the altered version is the only one available, who loses out on their consumer rights then??? There isn't an unzoom feature which will bring back picture information or more importantly, resolution. Many are trying to educate J6P so this doesn't happen anymore.
Back to the Burgers...A "stock - not special order" burger should come with everything on it. If the customer purchases the stock burger with everything on it, he can remove that which he doesn't like. Sure, there may be some kind of aftertase from the stuff that was there, but he can still get it the way he wants it. If stock burgers only came with half the available condiments or extras, what of those folks who wanted something that was left off??? It can't be added back from the comfort of their own home.
This is why MAR is bad!!
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William
Go Bucs!!
MyDVDs

 

[LARUE]

The burger example still sucks. You can't buy a P&S DVD and then remove the top & bottom to have a WS version.

 

[Robert_eb]

word to your mutha

 

[RicP]

quote: word to your mutha[/quote]You resurrected a 2 month old 5-page thread and THIS is what you had to offer?

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Ric Perrott - My DVD's
[Edited last by RicP on October 26, 2001 at 06:40 PM]

 

[David Lawson]

Ric, I interpret it as a demand for Cool As Ice in OAR.
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He obviously misinterpreted what it means to "be bullish."

 

[Robert_eb]

Correct.

 

[Jeff]

Robert, have you been away for awhile?

 

[AdamW]

I make sure all of my friends know the benefits of widescreen and I also must mention the benefits of widescreen to my parents once a week. I don't know whats wrong with everyone, even my 11 year old sister knows you see more with widescreen. When I was watching Legally Blonde with her, when you select P&S or WS, they show the film in each format and my sister understood that you see more of it with widescreen. Theres just too many stupid people in this country. Trust me, I know a lot of them. We'll win this war eventually, althought it would be nice if studios were more supportive and stuck strictly to widescreen only and ignored all complaints from the J6Ps across the country. Hell, the studios could offer a graphic explanation of OAR on each disc. Oh well.

 

[Shawn_S]

It's tough trying to educate the masses. I've converted my brother-in-law to dvd & the whole home theater thing. We're working on his surround set-up now. I just finished mine a few weeks ago after getting my first DVD player over 2 years ago It's fun watching movies all over again.
Back on topic...If you can sit down with a person and really get into aspect ratio and the sound DVD offers, it's easier to show your point. Esp. if your player has a zoom button. Hit zoom and watch the picture disappear But trying to explain to people you meet in stores, your job or chruch??? I've given that up long time ago.

 

[Sam Davatchi]

What a quick reply to that question!