Is John Edwards (CrossingOver) for real?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Luis Gabriel Gerena, Oct 16, 2001.

  1. Luis Gabriel Gerena

    Luis Gabriel Gerena Second Unit

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    The show is kind of creepy but some how I can make my mind if its for real or not? What do you think?
     
  2. Joseph S

    Joseph S Cinematographer

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    It's as real as Miss Cleo's accent. [​IMG]
     
  3. Gilbert Galindo

    Gilbert Galindo Stunt Coordinator

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    All those ass wipes are full of shit who should be serving tossed salads for some thug in prison for ripping off people.
     
  4. brentl

    brentl Cinematographer

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    Nope !!
    He just throw out a lot of feelers and general questions.
    Brent L
    ------------------
    OK guys ..... The tour of the Paradigm
    plant is now being planned. GO TO THE HOME THEaTER
    MEETS PAGE and register.
     
  5. Luis Gabriel Gerena

    Luis Gabriel Gerena Second Unit

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    I guess some times you just want to believe there is something misterious out there.. [​IMG]
     
  6. NathanP

    NathanP Supporting Actor

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  7. Randy Tennison

    Randy Tennison Screenwriter

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    I am an eternal sceptic, and make my living on being able to read people (as a criminal investigator) and I can tell you that John Edwards is either the real thing, or the best fake I have ever seen.
    We went to see him live recently. There was no way he could get advance information on all the people he read in the audience (there were 3000 people there). He was SO accurate it was frightening. He knew things that there was no way he could have known. And not vague generalities. Very specific information, including uncommon names (Aunt Gertrude, who's niece was in the lady's room when she came through, greatly narrowing the number of people the message could be for), events (a college friend named Christine being hit by a boat and drowning), family secrets (father was arrested for animal abuse), pregnancies, etc. I was completely blown away. He read a lady directly in front of us, and was accurate on everything he said. I can tell you with 100% assurance that she was not a plant in the audience.
    I guess I look at it this way. We always want empirical proof that something is true. We want scientific studies, raw data, and proof to say "This is Real". That was the way I felt about John Edward in the beginning. But then it dawned on me. . . I go to church every Sunday, and believe in God, and Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. What scientific study has proven they are real. What proof do I have that says that there is a God. I only have faith, and a belief. So therefore, why can I not assign the same faith and belief into the comforting idea that my loved ones who have passed away are always with me, and that they can communicate with me and help me in life. I don't belive there is anything wrong with that. It makes me feel good knowing that my mom and dad are still with me every day. And if John Edward does have a gift that helps prove this to me, wonderful.
    ------------------
    Randy Tennison
    Kansas City, MO
    Home theater photos located at
    http://home.kc.rr.com/thetennisons/
     
  8. Luis Gabriel Gerena

    Luis Gabriel Gerena Second Unit

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    The reason I started this is because somehow I tend to belive John Edwards. Don't know why but he seems sincere enough. Maybe he is really gifted who knows...
     
  9. Joseph S

    Joseph S Cinematographer

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  10. SteveGon

    SteveGon Executive Producer

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    I'm paging the Skeptical Inquirer now!
    ------------------
    He thought on homeland, the big timber, the air thin and chill all the year long. Tulip poplars so big through the trunk they put you in mind of locomotives set on end. He thought of getting home and building him a cabin on Cold Mountain so high that not a soul but the nighthawks passing across the clouds in autumn could hear his sad cry. Of living a life so quiet he would not need ears. And if Ada would go with him, there might be the hope, so far off in the distance he did not even really see it, that in time his despair might be honed off to a point so fine and thin that it would be nearly the same as vanishing.
    -- Charles Frazier, Cold Mountain
    [Edited last by SteveGon on October 16, 2001 at 11:33 PM]
     
  11. Randy Tennison

    Randy Tennison Screenwriter

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    So, Joseph, with all due respect, just because one person in a profession is dishonest, does it automatically makes everyone in that profession dishonest??? I've known dishonest cops, lawyers and firemen. We would not paint all of them with such a broad brush (well, maybe the lawyers, but definitely not the firemen). Some psychics are fakes and ripoffs, but that does not necessarily mean all of them are.
    Other factors to consider when thinking about the John Edward event I attended; It was general admission, so there was no assigned seats, and no way for John to know where anyone was in the crowd, in advance. There were 3000+ people in the room. John did not wear an "earpiece". John rejected many of the validations that people gave, because "they" were reaching for an explanation. He made them think harder before he accepted that they understood what was being said.
    Case in point was the girl who got hit by a boat I mentioned above. He talked about a girl to the side (meaning same age) who died on water from an impact, and it was a big event, in that it made the papers. He said she had a CR name. No one was understanding it. People started trying to make something fit. "I had a cousin who drowned in the bathtub?!?!" "My dad hit another boat while fishing?!?!?" He rejected about 8 people trying to stretch for a meaning. Then, the lady next to the person he was originally talking to finally remembered a college friend who was canoeing, and was hit by another boat, and killed by the impact, not the drowning. Her name was Christine, and the incident made all the newspapers in the small college town. She hadn't talked about this in line. This would not be on her resume, or something an investigator would find out. It took her a few minutes to remember it.
    John could have easily gone with one of the people who was trying to make the explanation fit. But he didn't. He waited until the right person came through.
    Plesae understand that I honor and understand everyones skepticism. I am a hugh skeptic myself of many of these things. I thought "what a fake" when I first heard of John Edward. But after watching and studying, my skepticism has faded. And I would challenge you to not dismiss something offhand, without first investigating and experiencing it.
    Oh, and I loved the Will Farrel scene. Although it's not how John Edward does it, it was still a great parody.
    ------------------
    Randy Tennison
    Kansas City, MO
    Home theater photos located at
    http://home.kc.rr.com/thetennisons/
     
  12. Luis Gabriel Gerena

    Luis Gabriel Gerena Second Unit

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    I'll really like to attend that show. One thing that I would like to know is, is he listening to the "spirits" talk or just make signs? I am asking cause since I am from Puerto Rico what would happen if I attend the show and some of my dead relatives try to make contact in Spanish?
     
  13. John Spencer

    John Spencer Supporting Actor

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  14. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    See Steve Gon's post? He's on the right track. (I'd also recommend Skeptic magazine, as well.)
    Like all such charlatans before him, Edwards knows how to play the con, to play people's emotions. So many people give themselves away in ways they don't realize--and this is what Edwards is exploiting. That, along with leading questions, is what keeps these omnipresent phonies in business. (And you better believe that "business" is what Edwards is all about.)
    ------------------
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Randy Tennison

    Randy Tennison Screenwriter

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    Luis,
    Good luck on attending a taping. They take phone calls once a month for tickets, and then it is a lottery to get tickets. He is booked for the next two years for private readings, and they are not taking any more appointments until they get the two year backlog down.
    As far as Spanish translation, he claims to see images, which he has learned to interpret, and that is how he understands what they are trying to say. He said the images and symbols are unique to him. He gave the example that if 10 people were shown an apple, what would be the first thing that came to their mind about it. One might say fruit, one might say red; delicious; healthy; doctor; computer; Adam and Eve, etc. So, his symbols are unique to him, and he has learned how to interpret them. So, I don't think there is a language barrier.
    If nothing else, it's fun to watch him and say "how the hell did he know that?!?!?!?"
    ------------------
    Randy Tennison
    Kansas City, MO
    Home theater photos located at
    http://home.kc.rr.com/thetennisons/
     
  16. DonaldB

    DonaldB Supporting Actor

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  17. Brad_W

    Brad_W Screenwriter

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  18. Randy Tennison

    Randy Tennison Screenwriter

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    Jack,
    I am curious if you have seen him do readings? If not, I would challenge you to watch his show, and try to find his trickery. Watch several episodes, so that you can see a variety of levels of success in readings. If you see something I haven't seen, let me know. I would love to know how he does it, if he is a fake.
    As to your statements, I'm not sure how you can give yourself away when you only answer yes or no, and when John can't even see you (as was the case at the event I attended. There were too many people, and he was quite a distance away.) And how does someone "give themselves away" on telephone readings, when he appears on a radio show (which is how he got started).
    Understand this, I am not trying to be John Edward's cheerleader, or convince anyone of anything about him. I simply have no emperical proof that what he does is not real. I am a trained criminal investigator, and have vast experience and training in interview and interrogation techniques, kinesic interviewing (reading the body language), neuro-linquistic (the autonomic clues the body gives off which cannot be controlled). I teach interview and interrogation. I am also an amateur magician, and know many of the tricks that magicians use in "mind reading". I understand the concepts of "cold reading", which The Amazing Randi claims is how John Edward works. I have watched his shows for any sign of trickery or deception. I watch to try to figure out how he does it. I simply don't see the fakery.
    So, I simply can't accept the statement "He is a fake" without any evidence to support that fact. We cannot prove the supernatural, because it is beyond our understanding. Therefore, we must try to prove the fakery. If someone can give me a logical explanation as to how he can be so accurate, without making simple statements such as "he makes general statements" (which I have seen first hand he doesn't), or "he sends out detectives to learn about people" (which I can pretty easily dismiss after seeing him live, due to the number of people he read, and the size of the crowd), then I will re-evaluate my belief.
    To paraphrase Sherlock Holmes, "When you have ruled out the impossible, whatever remains, however implausible, must be the truth."
    ------------------
    Randy Tennison
    Kansas City, MO
    Home theater photos located at
    http://home.kc.rr.com/thetennisons/
    [Edited last by Randy Tennison on October 18, 2001 at 09:06 AM]
     
  19. Julie K

    Julie K Screenwriter

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    quote:
    I simply can't accept the statement "He is a fake" without any evidence to support that fact. We cannot prove the supernatural, because it is beyond our understanding
    [/quote]
    You can't prove a negative.
    Prove to me that Santa Claus doesn't exist. Can't do it? So obviously there is a Santa!
    That's not the way science works. As been said many times, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If Edwards or his believers want me to believe his claims, they had better provide a lot of good, solid proof. So far, I haven't seen any.
    quote:
    I am an eternal sceptic
    [/quote]
    This is obviously a new usage of the word 'sceptic' that I was previously unaware of [​IMG]
    ------------------
    My DVDs
    "Some people think I'm over-prepared, paranoid...maybe even a little crazy. But they never met any pre-Cambrian life forms, did they?"
    [Edited last by Julie K on October 18, 2001 at 09:38 AM]
    [Edited last by Julie K on October 18, 2001 at 09:42 AM]
     
  20. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
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    Randy,
    You say you watched carefully for fakery and you didn't see it.
    I'm very sorry, but you did. You saw something that's impossible without fakery. So, as you said, you simply have to accept it as a possible logical explanation (Sherlock Holmes).
    I've seen discussions like this more than dozens of a dozen times now. The main problem with the logic is, that people don't realize they have to make up an improbable explanation (like magical mindreading without a radio-device, or sixth sense, or ghost-intervention, or what else) and then say there's no other logical explanation! Note that finding a radio device (to mention anything at all) would immediately be construed as a proof of deceit on the part of mr. Edward, even by you.
    The other error, often made by persons in the legal field, is: something is true unless proven false. Now that rule applies to the notion of being found guilty of a crime, but does not apply to the proof of verity of scientifically improbable claims!
    Note that I'm not saying that something "we cannot imagine" cannot exist! I'm just saying that the burden of proof that such a thing lies at the root of mr. Edward's performance lies entirely with him and his partners. Not with you or me, or anyone else who cannot influence the settings of that performance in the first place.
    Cees
     

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