If you had a choice, Def Tech, Infinity, KEF

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Tommy T, Sep 8, 2003.

  1. Tommy T

    Tommy T Stunt Coordinator

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    Quick background. Room dimensions: 15X20X10 ceilings, opening into the 15X15 kitchen. Used for 85% HT, 15% music. My sister works at Ultimate Electronics and I can get the following speakers at about the same price:

    Def Tech CLR2002, BP2006TL/1 and 2, and BP2X
    or
    Infinity ALPHA50, 37C, and ALPHA25ES
    or
    KEF Q7DA, Q9C, Q2DS.

    I'm planning on getting an Elite 43TX to power which ever I chose, but I'm still open to suggestions.

    My question is to the owners and to those who have heard them, which would YOU chose and WHY? I've listened to them all and I already know about going with what my ears tell me. I want to know what did your ears tell you. I already have a DIY 142L Shiva for the sub.

    I'd appreciate any and all comments.

    Tommy
     
  2. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    I would go with the Kefs but since you got the Pioneer already,I would go with the Def Techs.They only need little power to sing.Bipolars are really good for HT.
     
  3. Tommy T

    Tommy T Stunt Coordinator

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    I was kinda leaning that way already but I think the little powered subs in the Def Techs would be useless since I already have a pretty good sub.
    My opinions while listening to them was I was very impressed with the Def Techs but don't think I'll get any use out of the subs because of where I'll crossover with the sub.
    The Kefs sounded "clearest" out of the bunch.
    unfortunately, they only have the Alphas set up in the open but they still sounded pretty good.

    My outside choice has been to audition the Axioms, which I've heard great things about, and I love the appearance. I was thinking about the Millenia M50ti, QS8 surrounds, and the VP150 center. Being unheard and about $350 more than I can get the rest from, I'm not sure. Has anyone heard this Axiom setup in comparison to the others I've already mentioned.

    Thanks,
    Tommy
     
  4. Rory Buszka

    Rory Buszka Supporting Actor

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    Try getting one of the bipolar models (BP6, BP8, BP10, BP30) without the subs, then.
     
  5. Andrew Pezzo

    Andrew Pezzo Second Unit

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    You could take full advantage of the built-in subs in the Def Techs while still having a seperate sub, just set receiver to large for fronts and yes for sub. This way it will send the LFE to the mains and sub for lots of bass. I tried this when I had the 2006's and it kicked major butt. I put the sub in the rear of the room since the 2006's had the front covered for bass.

    I personally feel having full range mains for HT is a good thing. If you are really concerned about the sub you could always sell it and put the money towards the new speakers. Or you could wire it with the surrounds for full range speakers all around, this is what I am going to do with my current setup.
     
  6. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  7. StevieP

    StevieP Stunt Coordinator

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    Tommy, I have the BP/30s and A CLR/2000 for my front sound stage in the same size room as yours.

    I think with matching 6.5" drivers across the front they are hard to beat. Mids and Mid Bass really hit you in the chest.

    My subs "2" corner located and stacked ( 1-15" & 1-10" ) are probably not as good as your DIY Shiva, but the BP/30s set to large really play music well, and I use the subs for HT.

    Good Luck,
    Steve.
     
  8. Tommy T

    Tommy T Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for all the responses.

    StevieP, do you switch your BP30s from large to small for HT?

    If the mains were set to large, wouldn't all the LFE be sent to them, rendering the sub useless? That was my main concern, having to chose between the two. I wasn't sure if the Elite would allow me to do this since my little Kenwood wouldn't.

    I do like the BP30 option.

    Andrew, there is no way in Hades I would let my Shiva go, unless I built a Tempest or Tumult! That is my pride and joy and goodness does it do an excellent job!
     
  9. StevieP

    StevieP Stunt Coordinator

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    Tommy,

    I don't know about the Elite, but with my Sony DA3ES (as a pre/pro) I play with all the options, and depending on bass & LFE content of the movie I might select small for the fronts with a low limit of 40 or 60 hz and I can also set the high limit for the LFE/Bass from 40 on up to 200 hz, but I mostly stay below 90 hz on the LFE.

    When listining to music, the fronts are almost always set to large.
    The BP/30s will suprise you with their Bass output and are also bi-amp capable which is how i'm using them.

    Steve.
     
  10. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Tommy: I like Definitive's speakers, but I would only use them if you can position them properly. Bipolar speakers have specific locations they need to be in, or their special capabilities (big, "airy" sound) will be wasted.

    But if you do buy the Definitives:

    If you set your receiver to "large" fronts and set the Definitives so they don't use their built-in LFE input jack, the speaker should just use its own internal crossover to send the front channel's bass to the internal subwoofers. If it sounds good to you that way, you're done. If it doesn't, change your receiver to "small" fronts and give that a listen.

    LJ
     
  11. Mike_Gr

    Mike_Gr Stunt Coordinator

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    Tommy,

    Out of the initial three you listed (Def Tech, Kef, & Infinity),I would choose Kef.

    The Def Techs do a good job on HT but are lacking musically. Overall, they lack detail and the midrange just isn't 'punchy' enough to suit me. When I auditioned these, I had a hard time putting into words what I didn't like about these....but in the end I quit trying to figure it out and trusted my ears.

    I have only auditioned Kef's in 2 channel stereo. I don't have a bad thing to say about them, musically. I think they are on the pricey side and have learned that their performance can be matched for less money.

    Axiom is a solid choice (I should know). They are excellent speakers in terms of both performance and value. I reccomend you consider the M60 over the M50. Secondly, I noticed you have a Pioneer receiver. Many folks on the Axiom forum power their Axoims with a Pioneer and have attested to this being a good matchup. If you want more information, I suggest you visit the Axiom forum. Everbody on the forum is very helpful and will answer almost any questions you might have.
     
  12. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I agree with Mike GR's assessment of KEF vs Def Techs, and would make the same choice.

    The Def Techs are great for for HT, but when it comes to music, they don't do it for me, especially for 2ch with bipolars. My dealer stopped carrying Def Tech, and they were selling stuff off at 50% off, so I auditioned a number of speakers with music, and was not completely impressed.

    A friend has KEFs, I believe the same ones mentioned as mains, and they sound spectacular with music, and quite good with movies.

    I auditioned the Alphas and even the Kappas, with some very nice gear - near top of the line Yamaha + top of the line Pioneer elite SACD, Denon 5803 + 9000 DVD, and I was surprised to find that I kind of preferred the sound of Infinity's older models.
     
  13. george king

    george king Supporting Actor

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    John,

    We seem to have very similar tastes. I used to run Kefs, now I have the GR Research AV-1s (and you are the fortunate owner of the AV-2s), but I also had the same reaction to the new Alpha and Kappas.

    Happy listening.
     
  14. StevieP

    StevieP Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok Guys, I admit I have not heard the Kef's, but I have always been a fan of Infinity's And as such I was almost hell bent on buying Infinity, untill the merger with HK.
    The older Infinity's to me were some of the cleanest sounding speakers I'd heard up until nowdays.

    With that thought in mind, and not to chalange anyone,

    I STILL SAY MY BP/30s ARE HARD TO BEAT! and if ya'all have not heard BP30s in your home than it's hard to describe, and are much different than the Bi polar Powered towers with built in subs.

    I know that most here are not fans of Bi-Polar speakers or Def-Tech as music capable.
    But I'm here to put my 2 cents in to say that the BP/30s play music as well as ( or much cleaner with more mid clairity and punch as any Infinity I ever heard.)

    Tommy, Please listen to all involved, & whats available, and in no way is this a challange to anyone but just MOP!

    Thanks,
    Steve
     
  15. Jay McC

    Jay McC Agent

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    I'm with you Stevie. Im a proud owner of Definitive and i believe that the same characteristics that make a full range speaker great for HT also works for music. Definitives have great midrange control and presence, sub woofer like bass extension, and a very smooth and even high frequency response. The horns on Etta James's "Willow Weep for Me" can be down right offensive if listening to the wrong set of speakers. And the keystrokes on Coltrane's "In a Sentimental Mood" can be quite uncomfortable. But Definitives do a wonderful job of putting out an even and unexaggerated sound. And thats what makes them great for both HT and music. And in this day and age when customer service has gone from the how may i halp you philosophy to i've already got your money, Definitive is top notch for customer support. That puts them ahead of the pack.
     
  16. Tommy T

    Tommy T Stunt Coordinator

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    My initial appeal to the Def Techs was the "enveloping" sound. I have a pretty large area to cover and when I have movie night, I can tell a big difference when sitting off-axis.
    I didn't get the same feeling from the KEF's but like I said earlier, they did sound "clearer, and crisper".

    The Infinity's were out in the open but still sounded pretty good. I didn't have a chance to listen to the 25ES surrounds because of this.

    I'm probably going back tonight for another listen but I already know, the wife doesn't like the look of the Def Tech's, she prefers the KEF's.

    Personally, I like the look of the Infinity's with the KEF's a close second.

    I just can't get over the sound of the Def Tech's though.

    Can someone explain what you mean when you say the bipolars are not good for 2 channel music?
    I'll make sure I do some critical listening in 2 Channel tonight.

    Thanks again. You guys have been a big help thus far.
     
  17. Eric Tobias

    Eric Tobias Agent

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    I started with the 2006's but even with the built in sub, they lacked the punch I wanted for movies. If I kept the 2006's I would have added a sub. I took them back and went to the 2002's. Huge difference, more bass just a better speaker. The 5.25" driver is noticeably different than the 4.5"s. I also got a powered center the 2500. I run the mains and center as large with no sub. I keep the dial on the sub at about 10-12 oclock, depending on movie or music. make sure all your drivers match.
     
  18. Michael S

    Michael S Agent

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    Several of the people that replied to your post indicated that Def Techs do not have good midrange and that the multiple subs would be a possible problem. I doubt that they have listened to the new BP7000SC's or BP7001Sc's. When I went from a pair of BP2000's as my mains to BP7000's, it was a remarkable difference--their internal crossover network and built in supercubes resulted in much tighter bass as well as much more detail in the midrange and upper range as well. Even though they are more money (and it is easier to spend somebody else's money;-), audition a pair of 7001SC's--think you and anyone else that hears them will be surprised if they think that they will hear the old laid back Def Techs! Also, I am running an 18 inch sub with the LFE being sent not only to the dedicated sub, but also to the BP7000's through the LFE inputs AND am running them full range, so that the .1 LFE is being sent to all 7 speakers as well as the sub through the regular speaker connects and in an acoustically horrible environment, the bass is fabulous. The new SC's are much, much more musical IMHO.

    Michael S.
     
  19. Michael S

    Michael S Agent

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    Several of the people that replied to your post indicated that Def Techs do not have good midrange and that the multiple subs would be a possible problem. I doubt that they have listened to the new BP7000SC's or BP7001Sc's. When I went from a pair of BP2000's as my mains to BP7000's, it was a remarkable difference--their internal crossover network and built in supercubes resulted in much tighter bass as well as much more detail in the midrange and upper range as well. Even though they are more money (and it is easier to spend somebody else's money;-), audition a pair of 7001SC's--think you and anyone else that hears them will be surprised if they think that they will hear the old laid back Def Techs! Also, I am running an 18 inch sub with the LFE being sent not only to the dedicated sub, but also to the BP7000's through the LFE inputs AND am running them full range, so that the .1 LFE is being sent to all 7 speakers as well as the sub through the regular speaker connects and in an acoustically horrible environment, the bass is fabulous. The new SC's are much, much more musical IMHO, than those that went before them.

    Sorry that this post was a duplicate--could not find a way to delete this or the previous post--kindly excuse this booboo.

    Michael S.
     
  20. Tommy T

    Tommy T Stunt Coordinator

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    Well after all was said and done, I went with the new Yamaha 2400 and the Infinity's. I spent numerous hours at Ultimate Electronics and with price being relatively equal for all three, I went with this setup because it sounded best to be. I had a hard time getting over the "name" because everyone there was recommending Klipsch or the KEF's but when I did a blind AB test, the Infinity's won for me.

    I've had this set up for about a month now and I can tell you that the Infinity's sound really good for HT and that YPAO is the real deal!

    Tommy
     

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