I watch women's tennis on TV just hear the loud grunts (1 Viewer)

[Mary M S]

you try sprinting around the court with jumbly wumblies


Don’t both sexes have that problem and isn’t that why athletic supporters were invented?

….Just teasing Chu. Fine with me if they are docked – 2 fifths. I agree equal work = equal pay.

Any how now I somehow feel compelled, to tell female hero of the week story. Saw old footage last week, of the best emergency landing of a C-130 I have ever viewed caught on tape. These often touchdown with minor skips (bounces) and sideways squeaking smoke from the tires during average landings.
Female Captain came in with one main gear up and one down transitioning seamlessly from air to asphalt without a shudder. The nose stayed up tracking straight as an arrow as if the Cargo plane had an invisible 2nd main under her. Traversed the normal length perfectly down the runway, forward momentum lost, it settled gently to the tarmac, on one wing.

Now she deserved triple overtime that day…just for the sheer sweat factor.

 

[Scott L]

Not really, why do you think they take Steroids?

 

[Andrew W]

Nice, but...

A man would have gone ahead and lowered *both* main gear.














Just joking... I used to be an jet mech, this happens sometimes.

 

[Chu Gai]

Would men agree to a 4% or so pay cut, therebye putting their winnings on par with womens, if they didn't have to play the two extra sets?

 

[Lew Crippen]

If tennis or other professional sports were analougous to 'work', you might have a point. However professional sports is entertainment and professional players get paid for their entertainment value, not for the number of hours (or sets) on the court. If it were for the number of strokes (perhaps a better measure of work, than sets) Pete Sampras, when at the top of his game, should have made less money than almst anyone, as he dispatched his oponents (especially on grass) with a serve and volley (when he was not serving up an ace).

Your argument is at best specious and at worst, insulting. Players get paid for the same reason that movie and pop rock stars get paid: people want to see them perform. When people don't want to see women play tennis, the money will go down.

Aside from that, the real reason goes back to Billie Jean King, who led the effort in women's tennis to get (more nearly) equal pay.

 

[Chu Gai]

There are many women who question the best of 3 Lew so it's not a male thing. Would it be so terrible for the women to go best out of 5?

 

[Daren Welsh]

Vin Diesel once landed a 747 with the nosewheel retracted. He used his nuts in place of the malfunctioning gear.

 

[TonyD]

does a woman grunting during a televised tennis match really do something for some of you?

i find that hard to believe, ridiculous and somewhat sad.

unless you are 13 years old.
why would an adult find that to be stimulating in any way?

 

[SarahG]

Ha, good question. I hope not, too. I don't see a problem with the grunting, but I'm not having to play against it either. I think if that is the way they want to play, they are entitled to do it.

 

[ZacharyTait]

I don't have a problem with the grunting as long as it is from exertion, not doing it just for the sake of doing it.

As for the 3 sets vs. 5 sets thing, I think the WTA should try out the 5 set matches at some smaller tournaments and see if they're sucessful there. If so, expand it to be in all tournaments, including the majors. If not, go back to the way it was.

I personally would like to see it go to 5 matches because then it gives a better chance of a great match happening. Someone could be down 2 sets to 0 and come back and win. Typing this reminds me of the Sports Night episode where Alberto Fedregotti "just wouldn't die" against Pete Sampras.

Just to make this thread worth reading, here's some pics of Maria Sharapova:

Maria Sharapova #1

Maria Sharapova #2

 

[Lew Crippen]

I was addressing the equal pay issue, not playing five sets instead of three. I am not against women playing five and do not think (or write, or imply) that it would not be a bad thing, other than for working out the scheduling in the Grand Slam events, where everything has been played over two weeks.

But playing best of three or best of five has nothing much to do with the pay being the same. Repeating the point, tennis players, both men and women get paid for entertaining, not for how much physical work they perform. The same with other professional sports and with other entertainers, like musicians and actors.

 

[Chu Gai]

Like the 100 meter dash, marathons, race car driving, or horse racing? Those are also entertainment as well as sports but the sexes both are under the same constraints. I just don't see it the same way as you Lew. In the end though, it still comes down to what's sexy and marketable. You won't see Pam Shriver making anywhere near in endorsements as Kournikova.

 

[Lew Crippen]

I'm not exactly sure of your point. For sure the sports you list have the same contraints for men and women. But the pay is far from equal. Since you list track and field, I'm sure that you are aware that much of the pay for those performers is appearence money. That money is not at all equal, regardless of the time spent 'working'. Men typically get much more, as that is what the public wants.

I don't have the stats at hand, but the non-appearence money is also not equal, the men commanding more.

Men make far, far more in golf to cite another example. Why? Not because they hit from the back tees, but because people want to see them play much more than the women.

Given the logic that in tennis women, in order to command equal pay should play the same number of sets, it follows that in sports where women put in the same effort, they should command the same pay.

It is obvious that this is not the case. I have yet to see threads, read columns, or listen to commentators suggest that women should get the same pay for running the 100 meters as the men, because the 'work' is the same.

Insisting that professional athletes should be paid according to how much work they perform deifies logic. And if not, it is very most certaintly (and provable) that is not how it works in many, perhaps most, reverse situtations.

 

[Gary Seven]

As A player who used to be ranked in the US many a year ago, there is a BIG difference playing five sets as opposed to three. A hell of alot more effort, endurance and yes, work is involved. If women want the same pay in tennis, then the standards of play should be the same as well. Simple.

Lew, in taking your example of musicians, then the person in the orchestra who just smahes the cymbols occassionally together should be paid equally as the violinist who must carry the melody throughout. For the actor, the extra should be paid equally as the main star... all are entertaining.

But the amount of work involved is disproportionate.

 

[Christ Reynolds]

anyone who suggests that professional athletes should be paid according to the amount of work they do, or their constraints...do those people also believe that people who build concrete forms (or have some other hard labor job) should be paid according to the amount of tickets can be sold to watch him work? it completely defies logic to think that a pro athlete should be paid more if their job is "harder".

most people are paid, in one form or another, by the amount of money they bring for their employer. it's the reason why the simpsons voice actors can get $375,000 per episode, for probably the easiest job in the world. their employer makes a ton of money from what they do, and they get paid very well. pro athletes, movie stars, and musicians are no different. if women athletes drew 10x as many spectators as men, they would get paid according to what the market will bear. how hard they work at being an athlete is just about the last thing that determines how much they get paid.

CJ

 

[Lew Crippen]

I never suggested that musicians should be paid equally--or for the 'work' they perform.

I state that musicians get paid as entertainers, not for 'work'. Of course they work very hard. As do professional athletes. The amount of work that you (for example) put in to become nationaly ranked is much more than I would have done, even if I had the talent (sadly lacking).

Nowhere did I suggest that it was not more work to play five sets than 3.

The point was (and remains) that the amount of work put in by either men or women has nothing to do with compensation. The compensation is based on how much people want to see them play.

In the grand slam events, spectators pretty much track men and women the same. They get paid (in these events) pretty much the same.

People are not so interested in doubles. Winning one of those events pays far less than the singles events. But the work is the same (even if one divides the work in half to account for two players, the prize money is also divided in half and the resulting award is far less than singles when normalized).

Women golfers (as I mentioned) get far less than the men. Why? Because the entertainment value is not so high. Not becuase they play fewer holes.

As an aside, I wonder if female ice skaters make the same, more or less than the women?. For sure they have a higher entertainment value than the men (the women's events have much higher ticket sales than the men's). Do you expect that the men should get more money because their program is longer? After all, the box office is being driven by the women, not the men.

I suggest that the women should make more, even though they have less 'work'.

 

[Mitch Stevens]

Watch "Ken Park." Some people seem to love a woman's grunts.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

I assure you Lew, the women get paid much more than the men, if they are Worlds or Olympic winners. The only exception may be Scotty Hamlilton, but when you own Stars on Ice, you can set your own rate.

I have a sister who was involved in Ice Capades a few years back, I know of what I speak. He (or she) that drives the gate or TV audience is he (or she) that reaps the reward. The divide is even greater in the gymnastics world, where a female may tour with a very lucrative exibition show and the men...weel, they become instructors at the local gym.

 

[TonyD]

mitch i have seen ken park. as i am trying to ersase that entire movie from my mind i dont remember anything about grunting in that.

it have anything to do with tennis and woman grunting during tennis?
if not, how does it apply?

 

[Mitch Stevens]

Tony,

In "Ken Park" the guy who's living with his grandparents goes to his room to masturbate to the sound of a woman's grunting, while she's playing tennis. The sound of her grunts get louder and louder as he gets closer to climax.


I hope I wasn't too explicit.