I think he's smoking something (1 Viewer)

[Robert Cowan]

sometimes, i feel like people just pick on products because they cant afford them...

if these outrageous cables were $1/ft, i dont think there would be a discussion, as everyone could afford them. but becuase they are outside of the budget of most people, heated discussions arise.

many people feel that a $1k ballpoint pen is dumb, but if $1k is pocketchange to you, you would probably own a few and not think about whether it writes better or not.

 

[Chu Gai]

If they were $1/foot there wouldn't be any reviews and there wouldn't be any silly claims. Well that's not exactly right as people claim that silver over copper, aka hook-up wire from say Radio Shack, is bright. I've got issues with those claims too. Don't you think it's a bit much that a differential of say 0.1 dB at 20 kHz is said to be audible?

 

[Bryan_G]

There is a difference between saying, "This is the nicest damn power cord you will ever see" and saying, "This power cord will make sonic improvements that can't be realized in cheaper cords." The fact is very few people can afford to by a $1k PC on looks alone, especially when that $1k could be spent on unquestionable improvements such as room treatments. However when these PC's claim to have just as much improvements as something such as room treatments, more people can afford them. THAT is why they are always under such high scrutiny. If those fountain pens claimed to improve sound quality they would be just as hot topic, because it would be EXACTLY the same as this.


-Bryan

 

[Yogi]

Not that either of you did the right or wrong thing the point to be taken from this example is that happiness is relative. He is as much happy with his purchase as you are with yours. When all is said and done you both are equally happy and you both sleep equally well at night. He probably reasons that his Kia takes him from point A to point B in the same amount of time that your Merc takes. Its all relative in the end.

 

[Garrett Lundy]

A CAI will most certainly add 10% HP to your engine.

Of course you must currently have a Mopar 440 R/B block with edelbrock Performer RPM aluminum heads, intake, and camshafts and be plugging up the 750cfm Demon carburator with a piece of wet cardboard.

On the other hand....

A better intake (Thunder MFG w/ K&N filter) and a full exhaust (Vance&hines straightshots) took my 800 Vulcan from 43hp to 52. Thats an increase ofnine.. or almost 20%.

But that chances of a modern injected car having the same restrictive intake as a carburated bike are unlikely.

 

[JackS]

Try to be reasonable and purchase a set of "silver" for your CDP. Silver wires can be reasonably priced and offer another peace of mind situation that will probably never be proved. For the rest of your system any well made wire will do. Quality of equipment has more to do with the quality of sound than any esoteric cable you may choose to install. I would think that Radio Shack Gold or the equivilant can work perfectly . Diamondbacks, Black Mambas and several other snake skins seem to be the vogue over the last few years but doubt any has an advantage over any other. They look neat so they must sound good seems to be the marketing ploy at work here. In wires there's cheap, moderate, expensive and ridiculous. Personally I like moderate level. Your choice.

 

[Chu Gai]

You could be right Yogi. OTOH, it could be worse. I could be a card carrying member of PETA with side memberships in Greenpeace and a bizarre fetish for Ted Nugent records. Damned if I know how good of a job I did with my kids. A strange thing I take pride in is that neither of the boys ever got a girl pregnant or abused one.

 

[Angelo.M]

I agree with this in principle, keeping the law of diminishing returns clearly in sight of course.

 

[Tim_S]

No, your post was reductionist and absurd and you know better. First, can a power cord or contiioner affect anything even though there are miles of cables before them? Yes and to suggest otherwise is facile and silly. It is possible to construct power cords and conditioners that measurably change the flow (PS-Audio's powerwave conditioner being an easy and clear example). The correct question is, will a specific power cord change anything in an audible way? That is debatable.

The rest of your examples similarly show your viewpoint. There is no differences in anything you do to modify a car, there is no difference in any lotion you use on your skin, there will be no difference between organic and conventional vegetables or meat, there will be no difference between different wines, all beds are the same, all carpets are the same and in general paying for anything but the bargain basement cheap stuff is wasting your money because there are no quality difference between anything. (Now I'm being reductionist and absurd. See how silly it looks. )Take it from a wine snob with bad skin that wines are different and those different skin lotions can work wonders. Power cables? I dunno, but since I haven't heard them I refrain from pissing all over anyone who hints there might be a difference.

Tim

 

[Yogi]

That again is relative. The law starts at different points for different people. For me and you the LDR starts around 2K and for your friend, perhaps, it starts around 20K.

 

[Angelo.M]

Of course, but he's been conditioned to believe that diminishing returns are achieved at a level which is an order of magnitude (or more) greater through no solid evidence, through the suggestion that it is so and through a boutique retail mentality that encourages one-upsmanship. If I'm guilty of the same in choosing to buy a Mercedes as opposed to a Kia, then fine, but I'd argue that there is a more demonstrable difference between those automobiles than exists between a $5000 pre/pro and a $25,000 pre/pro.

I agree that we draw our lines at different places and for vastly different reasons. I just don't see the same type or degree of hucksterism in the luxury car market that I see in the luxury stereo market. Over the years, I spent tens of thousands of dollars building what I felt was the ultimate 2-channel stereo kit. In most cases, I let the folks at Stereophile and The Absolute Sound guide my every move toward what I assumed would be "audio nirvanna." I never found it, but instead drifted in a world of tweaks and the-grass-is-always-greener (the-soundstage-is-always-wider?). Over the years, the gear found good homes passed on to folks that were eager to take up my cause. And now, I enjoy a rig that, I daresay, is still beyond the typical system of many folks (no insult meant), but much scaled back from its heyday.

OK, I'll buy the first round at our next Audiophiles Anonymous meeting. You bring the green markers and the elephant ears, and I'll bring the Grolsch.

 

[Chu Gai]

You'll need different colored markers with Blu Ray.

 

[Angelo.M]

I've been considering that, Chu. Maybe those scented markers my four-year-old daughter loves. There's a blue one which smells something like blueberry. That should work fine for Blu Ray, don't you think.

I'll leave the marker in the anechoic noble gas chamber next to a small Shakti stone and a Tice clock, and store it away until hi-def DVD is here. Or maybe in a humidor, in a plastic bag, with a slice of apple.

 

[John Garcia]

I'd like to take the time to quote the classic Finding Nemo

 

[Angelo.M]

Wow.

I thought you were quoting a typical "high-end" audio salesman.

 

[Chu Gai]

Ooooohhhh...can I quote too?
It's little known, that Bobby Boucher was also a high end cable monger who knew much about alligators as well as wires.

Bobby Boucher: My Mama says that alligators are ornery because they got all them teeth and no toothbrush.

 

[John Garcia]

Is that BOWCHER or Boo-shay? I saw some chick open for Sarah McLachlan a few weeks back, and her name was spelled the same way, but she insisted that it was pronounced BOWCHER. Crackhead.


I think this thread is just about done, which means it will continue on aimlessly for a few more days.

 

[Yogi]

An objectivist would pronounce it BOWCHER (just like its spelled)

A subjectivist would pronounce it BOO-SHAY (wouldn't have anything to do with how its spelled)

 

[LanceJ]

Sorry, I don't go for this "all truth is relative" mumbo-jumbo. There ARE absolutes in the world, absolutes that can be accurately defined & measured. I am fully aware science doesn't tell us everything but it certainly can show us the truth about MANY things.

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Off-topic but still relevant

And as far as educating children in the process of critical thinking (to help protect them from hucksterism and other forms of propaganda), this very important & fundamental concept has been almost left behind in favor of "feel-good" and badly-researched educational theories that do little to truly aid our children in discovering how our world actually operates.

Here is one of many websites describing parts of this insidious process that is infecting our schools--I personally found it a scary read and I truly hope it scares the shit out of every parent that reads it:

Affective Education: The Danger of Self-Esteem Programs

If you have ever wondered why little Johnny can't read but he sure feels good about himself despite this, this page will help one to understand why.

 

[Chu Gai]

A very thought provoking link Lance, thanks...errr...word up, bro!