I think he's smoking something

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by JamesDB, Jul 30, 2004.

  1. JamesDB

    JamesDB Stunt Coordinator

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    Not to be inflamatory, but I don't know how to trust Secrets anymore after the kind of review they just did on the Nordost Vishnu and Valhalla power cables. Of course they are doing more and more of these kind of reviews, but this one is over the top in my book. And they didn't even bench them... They had good credibility on their DVD player tests, but this just undermines them.

    James
     
  2. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Power cables are a vaild, not necessary, upgrade. Nobody says you have to buy them.

    Secret's DVD reviews are very objective and seem very thourough to me, so I will contunue to read them. I find them an excellent starting point when considering what to buy and recommend to friends. Take it all with a grain of salt and form your own opinion.
     
  3. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    I haven't read that review, but ...

    I definitely have my *more* favorite reviewers over there. I like Kris Deering and John E. Johnson and Brian Florian, and a few others.

    Oh yeah, Jason... He's a member of the Bay Area Audio Society. He's a good guy, but he's definitely in the power cords matter camp, vibrapods and other isolation things for stuff, etc.

    Be interesting to see him do a double blind A/B/X test on something like this. [​IMG]
     
  4. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    There's vets out there providing homeopathic preparations for pets. Makes money and caters to people who believe in this stuff.
     
  5. Kevin_Breeze

    Kevin_Breeze Second Unit

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    I just starting reading about these high end power cables. I was reading a review on a Cambridge 300 CD player and the guy was raving about how this aftermarket power cable he adding made a big improvement in the sound quality and I just find it so hard to believe. It just seemed like a promotion for the product. I mean what about all the elctric wires in the house the connects to the outlet. There may be this great cable running from the wall to the player but what about from the pole outside to the wall. Isn't something only as strong as its weakest link? And when it comes to power, as long as the correct voltage is there, isn't it just straightforward either its on or off?? Now I am no electrician or expert by any means but I don't know, I agree with Chu....I think its just more snake oil for the most part.
     
  6. Kevin_Breeze

    Kevin_Breeze Second Unit

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    by the way can anyone give me a link to these secrets reviews...I can't seem to find them....
     
  7. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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  8. Robert Cowan

    Robert Cowan Supporting Actor

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    i once again suggest everyone to go out and get some power cords to try out. any respectable shop will loan you a cord to try out. if you cant hear a difference, GREAT! if you can, GREAT! either way you win.

    there are a lot of people out there using and swearing by power cords. these people dont work at mcdonalds. to spend that kind of money, they have to have a decent amount of money. this would assume they have decent jobs at least. these shouldnt be stupid people. its VERY hard to believe that SO many people (assumed as smart people) are so stupid and are buying $1k wire that does nothing... i just find it hard to believe.
     
  9. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    I can see this thread going where most of these go. No I can't hear a difference, yes you can. Blah blah blah. But science says, but my ears say. But dbt's I haven't ever done before have said blah blah blah. After some posts about beer, this thread gets locked.

    In my book, They have alot of credibility and a power cable review doesn't undermine that. You can skip the reviews of the stuff you don't like.
     
  10. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Producer

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    Snake oil, I say. My preferred concoction is a Brooklyn...

    [​IMG]

    Smoothes over the treble, widens the soundstage and tames harsh reflections. [​IMG]
     
  11. RobWil

    RobWil Supporting Actor

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    The individual components that make up any power cord are not cost prohibitive by any means. I just cannot believe that all of these manufacturers of high quality components out there , after putting in the best quality capacitors, DACS and toroidal power supplys would all of a sudden say' "Geez, we've just shot our wad....we better save a couple bucks on the power cord, even though it's going to really detract from the overall sound quality...." If a buck or two more on a power cord would make that much difference they'd all be providing them stock and touting the sound quality of their products that much more.
    It's like buying an M3 badge for your BMW 325i and thinking it makes it faster.
     
  12. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Automanufacturers do this all the time. The Audio industry is not above them at all. I'm not surprised if they do this.
     
  13. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Actually, the cord that came with my receiver was a POS that didn't even fit in the socket well (looked exactly like the garden variety PC cord), so I replaced it with a $50 cable off Audiogon. Did I hear a difference? No, but it fits nice.
     
  14. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    i just find it hard to believe.
    Why? Happens in all walks of life especially when you're involved in something that you're somewhat passionate about. People are swearing by plant estrogens, those Q bracelets, accupuncture, aliens making crop circles, and so forth. Some fairly respectable people too. Doesn't mean its real though. Aren't you just a bit curious why scientific instruments that are far more sensitive than anything in audio don't buy PC's made with silver, directionally drawn copper, carbon, and all that?
     
  15. JamesDB

    JamesDB Stunt Coordinator

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    Hahaha... I have to say Chu.. if Intel, AMD, and IBM don't think "directional copper" will make their chips run cleaner, faster, using less energy etc. I can't bring myself to either. I live in a KB Home here in Cali. I know for a fact that they use the cheapest possible products in their walls just to save a few cents. So 300ft inwall cable bought at the cheapest price they can find.. and then terminate it with 4 ft of $3000 pixie dust cabling... something smells...

    You know, I suppose there are a few things I do buy that I know are bogus.. but the price is worth the "cool" factor... those sports socks that can make me run faster, or that gong that drives away the evil spirits [​IMG]
     
  16. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    I just starting reading about these high end power cables.
    So long as you understand this is fiction, you're ok.

    I was reading a review on a Cambridge 300 CD player and the guy was raving about how this aftermarket power cable he adding made a big improvement in the sound quality and I just find it so hard to believe.
    You'd be right to be skeptical. The power of advertising, which all these testimonials really are, is not to be underestimated. Adding something like a power cord or some of those silly mods that replace perfectly adequate capacitors and resistors with more expensive 'audiophile' capacitors and resistors in non-critical parts of the circuit board provides you with a very important benefit. If someone says to you, 'Ugh, you got a Cambridge 300? What a POS!', you can always reply, 'Well you've never heard it with the Wolfie Power Cord that's been cryo treated and broken in for 40 hours and through my mil-spec outlets have you asshole?' It gives you a measure of ego protection.

    It just seemed like a promotion for the product.
    Yup, just like the people that come out of those revival tents. Full of hope that their son who has cancer in his lymph nodes will be cured and lighter in the pocketbook.

    I mean what about all the elctric wires in the house the connects to the outlet.
    Indeed! There are some audiophiles who will rewire their entire house just so the HT is on the closest run. Maybe they should rent space inside the generation station.

    There may be this great cable running from the wall to the player but what about from the pole outside to the wall.
    Well it looks sharp. It appeals to our manly side of things. The testimonials appeal to our sense that we wouldn't buy something unless its demonstrably better sonically.

    Permit me to generalize. Look years ago, men just shaved. Now we need to exfoliate, tone, rehydrate, have a preshave treatment, postshave treatment, a nice manly scented cologne with pheremones so that when we go down to the bar or wherever, we can come home with an '11' that's going to ride us like the bull over at Gilley's, cook us breakfast, do the laundry and say, 'See you later, stud'. Women will buy things because they're pretty and it doesn't have to be functional. Men on the other hand require some sort of justification, even if we have to lie to ourselves or have others do the lieing for us and we just buy into the club.

    Ever watch 'Fast & The Furious'? I liked the movie. How many kids do you know that took their cars, added high performance spark plugs, MTD ignitions, 8 or 9 mm High Performance Wires, a set of $1600 rims, directional, only can use them when it's dry tires, Koni shocks, stainless brake lines, kevlar/ceramic composite pads, braided radiator hoses, cold air intakes, 3" dual exhausts that sound 'throaty', and swear they've now got a fast car? Well asshole, it's very nice and yes those are wonderful components, however your horsepower went from 162 to 165 and your quarter mile time hasn't changed. Maybe you just should've dropped a few hundred on a different rear end instead of $8000 on parts and you'd accelerate quicker? Kids.

    Isn't something only as strong as its weakest link?
    Pogo said it best, We have met the enemy and its us. We are the weakest link especially when we don't think critically and accept stories as fact.

    And when it comes to power, as long as the correct voltage is there, isn't it just straightforward either its on or off??
    Basically. Sometimes there are electrical problems, poor wiring, bad grounds, etc. that need to be addressed.

    You don't have to agree with me. Ask where the proof of sonic improvement is. I once emailed Signal cable asking them on what basis they claimed whatever it is they claimed. The reply was, 'That's what I heard'. Well slap me upside the head. A device called a make before break switch can be made. It's simple and allows the signal to never be interrupted when going from A to B. Hook two cords. Make one the audiophile and the other the el-cheapo. All the listener has to do is determine when the switch occurs without peaking. Easy, huh?

    You know, I suppose there are a few things I do buy that I know are bogus.. but the price is worth the "cool" factor... those sports socks that can make me run faster, or that gong that drives away the evil spirits
    That's a whole 'nother story. We all want to be like Mike. Can't think of anyone that wants to be Kobe though.
     
  17. Robert Cowan

    Robert Cowan Supporting Actor

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    people are experimenting with curved traces on PC boards... i believe some mobo's actually used curved traces too.

    when you get to the extreme of ANY hobby, people do and try extreme things. 5 years ago i would have thought dual subs was ridiculous, but now, i cant see how a system can be complete without them [​IMG]
     
  18. George_W_K

    George_W_K Screenwriter

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    Chu, you always have some interesting posts. [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  19. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Sounds like he made some poor decisions with those components. The cold air intake alone should increase it about 10%. Exhaust if done right will be 15 horsepower on average. Then again I guess you are exaggerating to make a point(whatever that is). Unless the kid is a dumbass he will get more than 3 horsepower.

    Call me a mind reader but my first post is a perfect explanation of this thread and the way its going is up top. Angelo has already graced the thread with a beer. It's downhill from here on out.
     
  20. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    The only kind of tires worth buying around here [​IMG] I'd rather have a nice set of tires than a POS fart pipe muffler [​IMG] Nothing wrong with Konis, but I went with KYBs.
     

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