I met Joe Sixpack yesterday at Wal-Mart (1 Viewer)

[ThomasC]

PQ wise this is absolutely the best film I've ever seen. Before this I thought that some High Def transfers on SHO-HD, HBO-HD or whatever, rivaled or looked better than the film I see in the movie theater. The film was perfect, it looked so good I was a little bit distracted, but then the hot chicks in the night club got my attention.

Oops, now back to discussing the evils of P&S...:b

 

[Malcolm R]

I like to put it in terms they can understand:

Imagine paying for a six-pack but only getting four cans. Would you be satisfied?

 

[ThomasC]

Imagine paying for a six-pack but only getting four cans. Would you be satisfied?

Not a great comparison. J6P still hears ALL of the dialogue, which is used to push the story forward in most, if not all, movies. Darth Vader still says "I am your father" in The Empire Strikes Back, Indiana Jones still rides off into the sunset in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, and the boat still sinks in Titanic. I can't think of a comparison to beer right now, maybe later.

 

[WillG]

Well, I'm happy, I finally got to advise a random person in a store today about what Format to purchase. It was a middle aged woman and she asked me what was better. Of course, I told her I always go with the Widescreen and even pointed out for her that they're would be black bars to which she replied "I know" Oddly enough, it was a very easy sell.

 

[Aaryn Chan]

I think all of you who puts WS dvds in front and hide P&S are my ennemies. I hide WS and put all FS in front.

You know what, the JSP who doesnt care about FS or WS will pick up the WS that you put in front and he'll live with it. Well, that way, WS copies will be gone faster, and "real" OAR geek will lose their chance to get a WS copy.

What we should do is to expose FS, and hide WS so OAR geeks know the secret place to get them. That way, we'll all get our WS copies.

Why let the WS gets into the hand of JSP? What matters to us is we can our hand on our WS dvds, not JSP.

 

[Joshua Clinard]

WOW! If we all had that attitude, the sales of widescreen discs would go way down. Then the studios would stop producing widescreen versions at all, and NO one would have a choice to buy widescreen DVD's. Sales is what drives demand for Fullscreen. When the sales of fullscreen editions gets low enough, which it will in two the three years I think, then the studio's will stop producing fullscreen, and it will be a happy widescreen world.

I know I'm dreaming, but it COULD happen.

 

[Ricardo C]

Aaryn, if that was meant as satire, you're a genius. If you were serious, please put down the pipe

It's not like DVDs are underpressed. In most cases, copies will remain unsold. There are enough copies to go around for us OAR supporters AND for converted J6P's.

 

[Patrick Mirza]

If you want fullscreen only, then you have no business being within 100 miles of the genius work that is Kubrick's 2001.

 

[Larry P]

People are always going to prefer Pan and Scan as long as 4x6 TV's exist. What we should be upset about is that the 16x9 beauties are still so expensive. Not all of us movie geeks have 10,000 dollars to spend on a new TV set. So I don't think most J6Packers do either, even if they can afford it.


We've been trying to educate people now for 20+ years about OAR and it isn't working. People have been watching cropped movies for fifty years now on their 4x6 sets. Things will only change when everyone has a 16x9 set. Wal Mart is just giving people what they want, they aren't forcing anything on anyone and we still have plenty choices. Things are still 90% better than they were ten, fifteen years ago.

It's all about the TV sets. You change the set and you change Joe Sixpack.

 

[Aaryn Chan]

He'll become Joe Eigth Packs

 

[Topher]

I think a lot people are missing the point. The studios ONLY want to make the sale. If both copies sell close to equal amounts, both options will always be available. For those of you worried that studios will quit making WS versions of DVD's, I wouldn't worry too much. If that ever happened the format would be dead. Too much money to be made by giving people a "choice", cut out one of those choices and you lose a lot of money. Doesn't anyone just live and let live anymore? Why always forcing others opinions? As far as the princible involved with art and the directors vision, since when does the director need an army of thugs to enforce his "vision". It's this seperatist, elitst attitude that jades people. Calling people morons because they don't appreciate what we appreciate is just pure snobery and the type of thing that drives people away from what would otherwise appear to be a nice community of people here to help other people. Think about all the people who probably read these threads, maybe even trying to understand the difference between P&S and WS, who get offended by people calling them morons or idiots. Not going to win any battles like that guys.

 

[Gordon McMurphy]

So... do people who buy pan and scan DVDs go home, sit on their fat butts and watch them on their 16:9 TV in 16:9 mode or 4:3 mode, that's what I'd like to know. Of course they don't, they'll be watching the 1.33:1 image either stretched or cropped to fill the 1.78:1/16:9 screen, right? My God, that's awful. And they'll do the same for pre-widescreen (1953) films too, I would imagine. If 2.35:1 scope films were panned and scanned to 1.78:1, they would at least have a sliver of an argument, but if 2.35:1 is cropped to 1.33:1 on DVD and then further cropping is administered to the image from 1.33:1 to 1.78:1, then well... I pity the fool who does that.

Oh, the horror.


Gordy

 

[David Lambert]

Let me try to explain my "middle of the road" approach to this issue:

I want OAR. NO OAR = NO SALE. When a salesperson tries to tell me that I should prefer non-OAR, whatever that consists of, then I get upset.

When I see someone in any setting who is "demanding" fullscreen with the same passion that I demand widescreen, then I just leave them alone in most cases. I'm not going to start a pissing contest in a retail store or at a friend's party, or whatever. Not unless I'm in the mood for a fight, and that's not usually my style.

If I see someone just asking for the non-OAR version out of routine, or even (praise be!) asking for information about what the difference is, then I quickly jump in and try to explain the concept to them.

HOWEVER, I am always trying to be careful to do it in a way I can only describe as "non-evangelical". I try not to get worked up about it, or put pressure on anyone. It usually backfires. I just present the facts, and let them make a decision on their own. They have to want it, after all, or they won't be happy with it and keep on buying it down the road.

If someone wants to make a choice between two different SKUs that have two different formats, then by all means I am in favor of choice and I want everyone to be happy.

The real problem I have is when studios deprive ME of a choice, and only present my favorite films in a way that I won't purchase. The Trouble With Angels is the latest example. I've been waiting 4 years (tomorrow is the 4th anniversary of me owning a DVD player) to upgrade my VHS to a widescreen version of this excellent film. Now Columbia has announced it for a release coming up here soon, but I can't even recall the date anymore because I won't be buying that non-OAR version.

Too bad, no sale on Angels. But if some fullscreen fan wants to get it, then bully for them. I'm glad they have the opportunity to. I wish I had the opportunity to buy the version I want, but life's just not fair, is it? Plenty of other DVDs to watch from studios that provide OAR versions.

 

[Topher]

True, in some cases people lose out. Unfortunately we are in the minority with this and no matter how much we wish people would understand the whole issue, they won't. Getting 1 person out of 50 to change their mind isn't a drop in the bucket in the grand scale of it all. Maybe everyone should focus their efforts towards the studios and demand choices, rather than try to convert the "fat morons"(as so many of you like to say). IMHO the STUDIOS are the ones to fault. Give everyone a choice. Petitions on this forum do work sometimes, maybe threads like those could get some of the traffic that ones like this get and we could start the ball rolling or at least help it along a little bit.

 

[Aaryn Chan]

I've once watched MI2 at a friend's house on a 16x9 TV.. in scretched mode. No one noticed that all the faces are long. I also noticed that, in Electronic stores, they show movies on their 16x9 TV sets in 1.33 scretched to 16x9. That is just L.A.M.E.

Most people dont notice the scretches or squezzes. That's sad.

Btw, back in the days, when there's no choice of WS or FS, only WS was released. Why does today that flipped around and when we only have 1 choice, it's FS?

I dont remember any 1997 dvds being FS release only. But today's world, Honey I shrank the kids is FS only.

Sad again.

 

[Joshua Clinard]

Quote:



We've been trying to educate people now for 20+ years about OAR and it isn't working.






Wrong! Educating people about the benefits of widescreen IS working. More and more people are being converted every DAY, and more people prefer widescreen now than they ever have before. Polls support this. There was a poll on starwars.com asking people which version they prefer. I don't have the actual results, but I think 75% indicated they prefer widescreen. There was also a poll on a Seattle newspaper's web site that indicated 76% preferred widescreen. Also, a poll I never released, because I didn't have the money to pay for the database of results, indicated that 80% of children ages 8-15 preferred widescreen as well. (Sample was 1000 children. Collected on MuggleNet.com) Even Blockbuster Video has admitted that people are beginning to understand the benefits of widescreen. Favor of widescreen was no where NEAR that number even 5 years ago. I am gussing it has risen at least 20% in the last 3 years alone! The more we educate, the more it will increase. I have seen it with my own eyes, and have heard many stories of people being converted based on education. That is the reason why my web site, Widesceen Advocate, exists. Use it!


After reading about the advantages of Widescreen here and here, do you prefer to watch movies in Widescreen or Pan & Scan?I prefer Widescreen (828) 80.47%I don´t care (119) 11.56%I prefer Pan & Scan (82) 7.97%
Total of votes: 1029

 

[MartinTeller]

I saw this the other day at Best Buy. Very sad.

 

[Marc_Sulinski]

quote:

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I also noticed that, in Electronic stores, they show movies on their 16x9 TV sets in 1.33 scretched to 16x9.
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I saw this the other day at Best Buy. Very sad.

I recently went to a Best Buy and saw the opposite! Since the video feed was 16:9, all of the 4:3 TVs had a streched image, and the 16:9 TVs were correct.

 

[Aaryn Chan]

I wonder why the 4:3 don't have black bars instead.. ???

 

[WillG]

Doesn't anyone just live and let live anymore?

I'm sure most of us would be happy to do that, but it may not be that simple. We see that many establishments are not giving the 2 formats equal treatments or, just decide to carry one format. Unfortunately, most of the time it comes down to one Format and one only, it is P&S and that creates concern. Sales are strong enough for studios to keep producing WS and we see on charts that they usually outsell P&S DVDs but it seems that it is a stuggle for OAR suppoters nonetheless. It seems as time goes on, I see P&S start to seriously infect B&M stores, video rental stores (with a couple of notable exceptions) Public Libraries, Supermarkets, etc. I guess my point is, most of us would surely "Live and Let Live" the day that anyplace that carries DVDs for sale, rental or lending carries both formats and gives them equal promenence in terms of numbers and display visibility. As long as this is not the case, we have to continue to fight for OAR. DVD started out as a mainly OAR medium. Sadly it has been infected with P&S, and although the sales for OAR are still usually better, who knows if this will stay the case.

Of course, since it is fact that in virtually all cases, the Theatrical A.R. is the way it was intended to be seen. If it came down to one format, it really should be the P&S people who should have to deal with W/S and not vice versa