I don't see why anybody is suppourting Dual-y Disc! (1 Viewer)

[ElevSkyMovie]

double post.

 

[ElevSkyMovie]

Just received an email from the John Mayer website that "Heavier Things" will be released on dual disc. You can order here.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

OK, I'm confused now, so I'm going to try a little thought experiment.

Rachael-B, who has embraced every audio-visual format including the Edison wax cylinder, states that she is not supporting Dual Discs because they are being used as substitutes for releases she wants to see, because they convey no addition of value to her beyond what she is already buying, and because her players are not designed for them. Will_B, a man who buys his music at a Comic Book shop, claims that CD is on its way out, that since Dual Disc is the Music Industry's anointed successor we should all embrace it without question, and that it will not require new players. Subsequently, enraged by Rachael-B's linguistic idiosyncracies and failure to show proper respect for the giant media conglomerates, he puts her on his "ignore" list.

Reasonable? Well, let's see.

Suppose I have here a Pioneer DVL-919 combination LaserDisc, Compact Disc, Compact Disc with Video, and DVD player, one of the most versatile optical-disc transports in existence. What is it specified to play? Discs of 8, 12, 20, and 30 centimeters diameter, thickness from 1.0 to 2.5 millimetres, linear velocity 1 to 30 metres per second. Sounds good so far. Now, there are two basic types of disc in the specification. One has a track pitch of 1.6 micron, a playback depth of 1.0 millimetre, a pit depth of 0.6 micron, and a rotational speed of 1.0-1.2 and/or 10-12 metres per second, and is played back with a 780 nm laser. The other has a track pitch of about 0.7 micron, a layer depth of 0.3, 0.4, 0.6, and/or 0.9 millimetres as I recall, and a linear velocity of about 2.5 metres per second, and is played back with a 580 nm laser.

The sides of the DualDisc do not conform to these specifications, ergo, such discs should not be used in the player even if the encoding format is compatible with discs which are supposed to play in it. This is straight forward enough, rather like not trying to play back monaural 45 RPM vinyl sound records on a player built for 78s [both using the RIAA equalisation curve]. Any company which would sell such a thing under the claim that it is compatible is irresponsible at best, not even mentioning the possibility that the technology's inventor is being refused his just license fees.

So, no matter how "dead" Compact Disc-Digital Audio may be, I have to side with Rachael on this one. I would hope that any replacemnt for the old war horse would be BETTER rather than just DIFFERENT...

 

[Rachael B]

Cristopher, I don't think Will and I are ignoring each other. I continue to be the prez and founder of the Funny Spelling Club of America too. I think there are times to make a stand and this is it.

Just say no to Dualdisc.

 

[PaulDA]

Christopher,

That is the best expressed reason for not putting a DualDisc in my machines that I've read. Should be required reading at the labels. I'm not a fan of DualDisc (haven't bought one yet) but my favourite band is soon releasing hi-res back catalogue (Genesis) and while SACDs are announced for Europe, they are signed with Warner's Atlantic in N. America and I thought I'd be forced to buy a Dual-y Disc . However, rumour has it they'll be one of the artists asking for a DVD-A release (already have the CDs, so I don't care about that). If not, then I guess I'm importing some discs from overseas (and taking the consequent hit to my wallet).

 

[PaulT]

I have spent 1000USD on a Universal player and am now told by the manufacturer I will void the warranty if I play Dual(-y) Discs in it.

Whether this is something they are saying just to cover their butts or whether or not they will actually play in my machine is not my concern here.

If I want a CD for my car I will buy a CD for my car....I could give 2 sh*ts for the extra DVD-V material even if it is considered a 'bonus'. DD are not CD priced in Canada, they are considerably higher. No benefit to me - I won't buy them. Sony won't release MC on the DVD-A side, and the other big 3 really are not putting anything more on the table for the increase in price.

Like Paul I will be ordering the Genesis Lambs Lie Down on Broadway SACD ..from Europe.

I see the large majority of people buying DD are the ones who listen to 128 encoded MP3's on their home theatre systems using some kind of artificial DSP mode and love the sound.... plus they get to watch the video . wooo wooo

 

[Brian L]

FWIW, this is how things ought to be done...

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=225193

BGL

 

[Rachael B]

I aggree Brian, but at the prices Warner is charging, well IMO, they're self defeating.

 

[Joe_H]

I understand the risks of DualDisc. I understand that I would much rather have more releases in true DVD-A. But if I remember right, first people complained about DVD-A for not having CD compatibility, and now I see people complaining about the CD compability. Sure I would love for just DVD-A, or even better, DVD-A with a CD copy of the disc included as well, but for now, I'll take anything I can get.

 

[Jesse Skeen]

Uh, dumb question here but if they do cause equipment damage, why did they put them on the market that way instead of first working to make them so they DON'T cause damage? I think Dualdisc is a good idea and would hate to see it fail because of such an oversight.
I haven't gotten any of the Dual-y Disc titles yet (don't have a DVD-Audio player either), but I have a couple other discs with DVD on one side and CD on the other- One of them, The Calling's single Whereever You May Go, even has the official Compact Disc logo on its CD side! Neither one has caused any damage to my equipment, though I haven't exactly been playing the heck out of them- just got 'em to see what the discs actually looked like since I'm such a format geek.

 

[Phil A]

Jesse, the software makers want to make money. Models change every year in hardware. The software makers did ltd. testing for playability. That was their main concern. They have no vested interest to check to see if long-term use will damage equipment.

The hardware manuf. have in many cases issued warnings. They mainly care about warranty issues. If something does in fact cause damage beyond the warranty period, I'm sure they don't mind if you have to pay for a repair and buy their parts.

So no one really knows what it will do in a specific piece of equipment with long-term use. I'm not willing to experiment on my stuff. I always have a backlog of things to listen to and will buy software I know won't be an issue.

 

[Rachael B]

Jesse, we all listened to the reports of Dual-y Disc experiments for the past 2 years. All we heard was they're too thick and so on. They never solved the problems and released the format anyway. It shows how much contempt the industry has for their customers IMO, knowingly releasing a very flawed product.

 

[Brian L]

Please allow me to rant a bit...

OK. Now I am officially cheesed off.

The Sunday Circuit City flyer lists a 1/2 dozen DD's...and wonder of wonders, a title I am interested in; Velvet Revolver. If they did it right, I would actually consider buying this, bogus CD side, too thick disc, slot player killer and all.

But Noooooooo, it has to be a f*ckin' Sony title. No hi-rez MC for me! Unless someone has better info, it appears that the DVD side is only a "Enhanced Stereo" LPCM track. Here's the link.

http://www.sonybmg.com/dualdisc/releases-content.html

Whoop-Dee Freakin' Doo! So, at best, its only 24/96. And while I love the music, this thing was not a sonic masterpiece. Hearing it at 24/96 will add nothing unless its been totally remastered, and what are the odds that that happenned?

For me, the only way I would ever consider a DD is if they do the DVD side right, and that means MC Hi-Rez. Another missed opportunity.

Thanks, but no thanks.

BGL

 

[Rachael B]

Brian, just be patient. Dual-y Disc will blow away like a tumbleweed soon enough. A better Velvet Revolver will bloom in the dessert eventually. That's a title they really want to sell. All good things for those that wait...I hope???

 

[PaulDA]

Besides, rumour has it that enhanced LPCM is simply 20 bit/48 khz, so Sony is offering very little enhancement if this is true. Is there a relatively easy way to verify this?

 

[Rachael B]

O-ooouh, o-ooouh, o-ooouh! My analogy/wise-ism of the day is: all that glitters is not gold. You get the drift, I hope....

 

[PaulT]

16/48 - now THAT's enhancement for you

 

[Phil A]

Imagine if other products tried to pass that off as major enhancement and how it would be taken in the market place -

1 - Viagra
2 - Return on Investments
3 - Sales on Merchandise

Don't think it would go that far on any of them

 

[Rachael B]

Holla Phil! Maybe those other industries are too stupid to deprove their products? Imagine half a woodie with new and improved Viagra-y ...

 

[Lee Scoggins]

That's redbook. Where is the extra value?