I don't see why anybody is suppourting Dual-y Disc! (1 Viewer)

[Rich Malloy]

Except that I've now read at least three quotes from industry insiders saying that DVD-A is being phased out entirely and replaced by dual-disc. If these are accurate, then DVD-A is dead already.

Otherwise, I'd be perfectly fine with your suggestion (and was perfectly fine with it). After all, I have a SACD/CD player and a separate DVD-A/DVD player, and likely always will as no universal player exists that's capable of playing all formats well (save perhaps the Linn and a couple others, but for $10,000 I'd rather buy "separates").

There are, however, a couple elephants in the room: (1) the future of mainstream music consumption will be downloadable files and portable hard-drives (which, as memory expands, will become feasible for use with large hi-res files); (2) blu-ray and HD-DVD discs will represent a revolutionary step forward in terms of disc capacity. Even in the early days of DVD-video, the savvy boutique studios were releasing higher-res music on "DADS" (DVD-Video discs containing two-channel 24/96 LPCM audio). It seems to me that the delivery medium for LPCM audio will be evolving over the next few years, and will be far superior to what it is today... that is, if they think there's a market for it.

 

[David S]

"The CD layer is too thin to be officially spec'ed as a proper "CD". The result of that is, a) because lasers in current players are not meant to focus to the thickness that the CD layer is on a DualDisc, they made the pits larger in an attempt to compensate. Due to that, the CD layer of a Dual Disc is limited to 60 min, not 80 min like a normal CD. b) Due to the incorrect focus distance, Stereophile said that the error correction circuity in your player has to work overtime, possibly resulting in some audible errors. They likened playing a brand new DualDisc to playing a 5 year old scuffed up CD".

And because I insist on the best sound possible, I could care less about Dual Disc. Give me well recorded Redbook, SACD (unlike some who only want the mainstream stuff -- I've discovered some amazing music from the "audiophile" lables on SACD), and vinyl (new and tons of cheap used) -- I'm set until I die!!

"Consider that your faith in Redbook CDs depends on CDs still being made... and that is far from certain. Each time I go into my nearby CD store, they've removed another aisle of CDs and replaced them with action figures, games, DVDs and other products which they feel have a future.

If CD does not get replaced with something, we could be seeing the end of physical product distribution as we knew it".

And when I type a new artists/old artist ( or just whatever music I'm looking for) name into Amazon, Google, or whatever internet engine you want, there lies an endless supply of cd's. Crap - I received a $30 DVD for my birthday that I already owned - took it back to Tower Records where my friend bought it, and literally could find nothing I wanted (as they charge way too much for anything they sell). Ended up with 3 $9.99 concert DVD's

Point here is the supply of CD software will be avaiable, its just gonna be different in finding it.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I personally think the audiophile labels and others will support the Super Audio format for many years.

It will be interesting also to see if 24/352k catches on. That would thrill even us jaded audiophiles and engineers.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Funny thing: in every case where I *replace* an existing CD of mine with a DVD-A or SACD, I have yet to get rid of the old CD. Maybe I'm just hedging my bets on the future of both formats... (I also suppose this is more important for DVD-A's than SACD hybrids anyway.)

That is too bad if the record industry views the future of DVD-A as DualDisc.

 

[Rachael B]

Kevin, this isn't the end of DVD-A. Who knows how many ways they can think of to repackage the format, with mayo and mustard, with trading cards, with incense, with a lock of Jimi Hendrix's hair, with bubblegum, with video games, with memory chips of somebody elses's memory, or they could try just a disc/s at reasonable prices at stores every where all at once and not create lower-priced competing (predatory) products (same title) at the same time.. They haven't tried that, much...

 

[Will_B]

People should have such problems. I'm trying hard not to laugh, but it is very difficult.

And I'm tired of this BS about making fun of the format by adding a Y to its name.

MODERATORS, PLEASE CORRECT THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD TO REFLECT THE NAME OF THE PRODUCT BEING DISCUSSED (and maybe the spelling of "supporting" as well).

Rachael, I've added you to my ignore list so I won't be able to reply to you anymore. Bye-y bye-y.

 

[Rachael B]

Now that Philips' new Scarlett Book SACD 2.0 standard is leaking out, and given that Sony's Dual-y Disc particpation is not sincere. Is there a secret aggreement for the big 4 to try SACD 2.0 if/when Dual-y Disc tanks? Or, will a whole new format joke, errr, I mean "war" emerge?

After the way SACD 1 has gone, I'm not so sure I'd be too excited about 2.0. All in all, I'm losing the last reminants of faith in all 4 majors...:frowning:

 

[Rachael B]

Touch-y aren't we Will? I know I'm an ogre...they said I was too dark green to get the Shrek part, sorry! I won't be ignoring you, particularly. I don't get upset abut idle, internet chat.

 

[Will_B]

Ain't that the truth! I like to buy from the local store (Newbury Comics), but I see either two things are happening:

Either the internet has made me so aware of what discs exist that I now perceive that physical stores no longer have a good variety of music (whereas pre-internet I was blissfully ignorant -- ICE magazine aside),

or,

physical stores no longer have as good a variety of CDs as they did a couple years ago.

Maybe it's a mix of the two. But like you, I'm increasingly coming away from the physical stores with nothing in hand, and I order from Amazon instead.

If this continues, perhaps factories will stop pressing CDs and places like Amazon will just burn them as orders come in.

It's an interesting time.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Rachael, check out the Audio Asylum discussion...all they did was tweak the specs. SACD 2 is effectively done as of month+ ago. LOL After all the web rumors, they did a minor tweak. So much for video features.

I think what we are likely to see is 90% of people will download music in the future and play back on an iPod and 10% will pay extra for Red Book or the niche hirez formats.

The 10% will have much more fun and be immersed in the music but have limited title availability.

The 10% will be the place to be and where you will find me.

 

[Kris Deering]

Couldn't agree with you more. I have bought quite a few of them too. I never said I didn't like SA-CD, I was just argueing the TECHNICAL points. I have quite a few of them in my collection and I enjoy them immensely.

 

[Rachael B]

Lee, this 10% minority, world-wide would stille be el numero grande. It is now and will be even larger later on. All in all, even talking about this is, so like discussing the Wal-Mart-ization of the music industry.

If 10% of the world wants high quality music, that's a big market, not a tiny niche. I hate the word niche anymore...

 

[Phil_DC]

No, from what I understand is DVD-A will not be phased out it will just be migrated to HD-DVD-A. Thus making use of the HD video resolution for stills/slideshows and video playback during music playback.


As for Dual-y Disc, why does it even exist?

I would think it would be cheaper just to include a CD version of the DVD-A in the case with the DVD-A. I have purchased some Mannheim Steamroller DVD-A"s that are packaged just that way. Not only do they include a separate CD they even have DVD-A on one side of the DVD and both DD and DTS on the other side, this way you get the best of all three worlds in one case. If the rest of the DVD-A manufactures would do the same SACD would be toast.

 

[Rachael B]

Lee, is it possible that Philips' Scarlet Book doings are intended for SACD via future format players, such as Blu-Ray? Why else? Why adjust the format now for any other reason? It makes it seem like the format war must be coming back. This has been discussed inconclusively here before...

 

[Rachael B]

Phil_DC, SA-CD-y is doing very well as a classical vehicle and the titles keep pouring out. JAZZ has slowed down since Universal went on holiday-hiatus-whatever, like stopped. They now control so very much of the whole jazz genere. I know not how much but it must be beaucoups? SA-CD could do just fine with other geners, as could DVD-A + CD, if they were not just relegated to the over-priced bin to get audophiles and collectors to hand over way too much money.

In the end, if any format is going to replace CD, it can't cost much more or maybe even any? Overwhelmingly more than CD's which the majority of the public already believe to be over-priced, just won't work. To me, this means (big 4) SA-CD's or DVD-A's have zero future as anything resembling a mass-market item if they're priced more than $2's more than CD's. Even that might be too much? Maybe $1 would be more in-line?

The music industry views every format change as a reason to raise disc prices $5-$10. That seems to be their only goal...? Check out preorders for Warner's DVD-A + 1 stuff, $24.98. Now we're back to a price that guarantees failure, IMO.

Myself, I believe if the big 4 can't deliver us either an SA-CD or DVD-A + CD for $15, or less, then, well then, they should just go and do something too nasty to mention in this decorum.

 

[PaulDA]

Sadly, for hi-res jazz fans, Sony/Columbia has the biggest back catalogue and though they released a fair bit of Miles Davis, their overall jazz releases mirror their general releases. I'm getting them as fast as I can afford them (and probably faster, shh) but I wish they'd flood the market with their stuff.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Could be...but Michael Smith seemed to think BluRay would not have audio for a while.

As much as I like DSD if Philips can get the entire industry united behind DXD, then I would be happy. 352K sampling would be great...the problem is that they need to sneak it into the next hidef video format so it will play on the new DVD players people will start buying in the Fall.

My view is that if early adopters get hidef DVD and 1-3 years later a new hirez format comes out, why should they buy a new player? Even as an early adopter I would be inclined to sit on the sidelines until I see where things are going...I would easily remember the SACD/DVDA format war.

Another hidden danger:
Might it also be possible we could have hirez downloads in a few years? I think is possible given the success and domination of the iPod/Shuffle/iTunes world.

 

[Danny Tse]

Is there really a demand for it? It's been proven that consumers value convenience over quality.

 

[Rachael B]

Lee, I'm with you in that I'm not hot to get the new Hi-def disc format/s since I have D-VHS and HD OTA/SAT. I'm tired of the same old, same old format war moved to a new front.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

But in this example they would get both...even more value!

I think it's a safe assumption that MP3 will continue growing quickly and really get established...I betcha the early adopters of iPod would support a higher sampling rate.

Although I feel 44k sampling or the lower sonic equivalent is a step backward in many ways, I cannot argue against allowing a consumer a way to buy individual tracks they like instead of the 1 or 2 out of 16 lottery ticket of a pricey CD. I'm still pissed about the new U2 and its compressed, processed sound. I went 0 for ? on that deal. It makes a nice coaster though.

The silver lining is that this is a major shock to the labels that forces them to move into the next century. Apple is likely to have a major influence on where things go.

In our favor: Jobs owns Wilson Audio speakers at home. Maybe one day he will call up his lead engineer and ask "why can't we do hirez on this puppy?"