DVD Review HTF REVIEW: Friday the 13th: From Crystal Lake to Manhattan (1 Viewer)

[GuruAskew]

There's a rumor that Betsy Palmer didn't reprise her role in "Freddy vs. Jason" because they were only offering her $150 a day. Another rumor suggests that one of the main deciding factors in hiring her for the first film was her willingness to drive herself to the set.

 

[Mark Hawley]

Am I the only person that actually thought that the less Friday the 13th took place in New York, the better?

I mean on the ship, Hedden was actually able to create some genuine tension (and he actually show a bit of directiorial flourish when there's that shot with the butcher knife hanging in the foreground and then not). But when they got to New York (which was, to be truthful, about 50-55 minutes into a 100 minute film), it became insuffrably dull with endless meandering scenes of them being chased through allies, subways, sewers, etc. Doesn't matter if they actually shot it in New York (I believe only a minimal amount was actually shot in New York), it would've been boring.

 

[Matt Thompson]

Actually, judging from what I remember from Cinemax, they reach New York about 87 minutes into the 100 minute film.

 

[Doug Miller]

I'm with Joe, the thing that was always so fun about Fridays was Jason killing a lot of people. I'm a huge fan of all horror, but to me, I can watch Friday the 13th (any one until Goes to Hell and X) literally any day of the week. I just can't say that about the majority of horror and/or slasher out there.

Doug

 

[Malcolm R]

That can't be right, as I believe SAG minimum is significantly more than that (like $650/day or something).

It could also be she was just too old. She would have been 76 at the time it was filmed. And she hasn't been in anything since 1999 according to IMDB.

 

[Damin J Toell]

Betsy told me that she didn't take the role because they didn't offer her enough money to make it worth her while, so she was happy to leave well enough alone. She didn't mention any specific numbers, nor did I ask.

DJ

 

[Matt Stone]

Amen. I'm a fan of Halloween 4, but Halloween 2 is leaps and bounds over all the Halloween sequels. The atmosphere of the hospital is fantastic.

Hmmm..reading my post, it sounds like I'm turning this into the Halloween discussion thread

...so, um, Friday the 13th is good too

 

[Ryan Wishton]

Mark,

They were in New York for no more than 2 minutes. All the Alley shots, etc., were done in Canada I believe. The shot on the street. This is the only time they are actually in New York.

The original idea was for a two part movie I believe. Part 8 was to take place fully on the cruise ship (showing how Jason gets to New York of course). Part 9 was take take place fully in New York.

Around 1986, they originally wanted to end at the 13th movie (when they were doing one a year). If that kept up the series would have been over by the mid 90's or so.

The idea was to take full advantage of New York and it's surroundings. Not to have characters running in alleys.

I agree. Having characters run in Alley's and sewer systems is boring. But, that was never the original intention of what the movie was suppose to be about.

Just about every idea had to be done away with because of the insanely ridiculous budget Paramount allowed for the film. $3 million??? I mean seriously, whats that? The series made a few hundred million combined worldwide by this point. Couldnt they have allowed $10-$15 million which is still nothing for a budget??? The movie would have made it all back anyways with not much effort.

I think Paramount made the mistake of just cashing in, cashing in for as little budget as possible and not trying. They had one of the top 3 horror icons of the time. If they would have put more work and care (how about any) as a studio into making the later movies especially more wild and exciting, they would have mantained theatrical ground to a certain extent.

They tried to just write off the series for years while trying too get as much profit as possible. What they should have done is realize they had a series people were interested in and should have tried to make them as fun & interesting as possible (Which an 8th movie in a series needs to be as no one will be scared by the character anymore anyways).

They could have done the Winter in Crystal lake idea. The New York Idea. People would have still seen them if they at least looked like fun.

 

[Ryan Wishton]

Dont get me wrong. I think New Line (pre FVJ Box Office days) made more mistakes with the character in two movies than Paramount ever did in eight. It wasnt until the New Line movies that Jason was completely looked at as a parody of his former self.

In 1989, he was just looked at as tired, but yet psychotic and a bad man by soccer moms everywhere.

In 2002, he was looked at as a complete joke once they shot him into space. When 7 year olds are laughing at poor Jason during previews when he shows up as Lord Zed from the Power Rangers (this would have never even happened in the 80's which was a pretty cheesy decade in itself), you know he was pretty much done for.

New Line turned down Jason in a Winter Surrounding in favor of sending him to Space. New Line would not greenlight any ideas involving Crystal Lake to distance themselves and the character from Paramount.

I mean they even considered a movie called Jason Goes to Africa??? Seriously. What were these people thinking? Maybe that would have been a better idea than space. lol. Might have been some really good camp potential there. I would love to see their explanation of how he ended up in Africa?

They absolutely refuse to use the F13 name even though they legally can. Yet, we opt for names like Jason X. I can see not using the F13 name anymore (It was used 8 times and is really more in tune with Paramounts series), but lets at least come up with something cleaver.

Yes, Jason at Crystal Lake was a tired idea. But, it still would have made more money with a Crystal Lake theme in Winter (and attracted more people as Jason would have been back in CL for the first time in nearly a decade) than it ever would have in Space. It wouldnt have been looked down at as much either.

Space was dead on arrival (theatrically speaking) and any exec should have known this. We are talking about an idea that already wiped out three horror franchises before this.

I mean if the dreadful Halloween: Ressurection pulled in 30 million, surely Jason returning after 9 years (in a normal earth setting) could have done about the same.

Yes, I do think if Jason was at a Wintery Crystal Lake instead of Space in 2002, the movie would have theatrically done much better. Around $30 million or so. Maybe more. It would have also had the nostalgia factor to fall back on.

I am all for new ideas. But, lets come up with some good ones. Space??? If you want to at least make money, you will need something that wont be laughed off the screen. New Line still made about a $30 million profit after all was said and done (after DVD sales, rentals, theater) off Jason X, but they could have done better.

 

[Matt Thompson]

I really don't like Halloween II. As a film in and of itself, it's nothing more than average. It's pretty obviously a cash-in from Carpenter. And the fact that it's a rip-off of Friday the 13th (I really can't stand rip-offs) just makes me dislike it even more. As a film, it's a middle-of-the-road Halloween. It's not up to the standards of Halloween 4 or even H20, but it's better than 5 and 6.


Doubtful. The Friday films were already in a steep decline by the last few films, and Myers seems to be more popular with the current generation of horror fans.

 

[Matt Stone]

I don't know about it being a cash-in. He co-wrote the screenplay, but it wasn't his film. And I've heard him mention that he wanted nothing to do with the sequels.

Also, I can see it as using some of what F13 created (as Scott mentioned, more gore + higher body count), but I wouldn't call it a rip off. It's not like Friday the 13th took place at a hospital or anything. Halloween 2's setting makes it pretty original in my opinion...and considering F13 was a ripoff of Halloween, I don't blame Halloween 2 for stealing a little back.

 

[Ryan Wishton]

Yes,

But, Halloween 5 and 6 both did pretty poorly too.

Halloween 5 made less than Jason X, so anything can recover it seems.

Halloween 6 made the same as Jason goes to Hell.

Halloween 8 did make more because it advertised itself as hip with a hip cast and took place on Earth. It also had a Jamie Lee Curtis cameo and took place after H20 (the second most successful movie in the franchise).

Jason X got it's ass kicked by Ressurection theatrically, but actually sold more DVD's and had a little bit better rentals.

Halloween Ressurection only did about 14 million in rentals which isnt very good. It's actually pretty poor for a Horror flick as horror sees most of it's money in rentals.

Jason X did 20 million in rentals which is still not very good, but ok. H20 also only did 20 million in rentals which for a major release was not good at all. Though it did much better theatrically.

For a comparison, Wes Cravens New Nightmare (another movie that didnt do too hot theatrically) made over $50-60 million in rentals over time kicking the asses of H20, Halloween Ressurection, and Jason X in the rental market.

Horror flicks generally do very well in the rental market. The Butterfly Effect is another example making well over $50 million in rentals.

Though compared to the Hellraisers last 2 offerings (neither made above 2 million in rentals which is just disasterous), everything did ok.

Freddy vs Jason of course handed them their asses every which way. Theatrically, PPV, Overseas, rentals worldwide, and sales. All by a large margin.

Though Freddy has been the biggest draw since the late 80's. He is also the most famous overseas and his movies did the best overseas.

Jason did fine overseas too, but his days of doing well overseas were over in 1984 and until FVJ came alone.

No Friday the 13th ever made below 20 million domestically (if you use inflated totals) before Jason X.

And only 2 (JTM, JGTH) made below 30 million domestically if you use inflated totals before Jason X.

Jason goes to Hell was the top grossing horror film of 1993 even with it's horrible totals. Wow, 1993 must have been a really crappy year for horror. Wait? I was there. Oh boy, did it ever suck.

JTM and JGTH also both had ok openings for their times followed by some horrible legs which killed them upon arrival. JTM especially had some very horrible legs. I believe it's because people felt duped by the false advertising.

Halloween 3 suffered a very similar fate back in 1982 with false advertising. Many walkouts and tons of pissed off fans. People felt duped. H3 basically advertised itself as a Myers movie. They never said he wasnt in it but played music from the movies he was in on tv ad's. They gave the illusion that he was very much in it though they never did say if he was or wasnt. The studio wanted you to think he was in it to get you in the theater. It severly backfired on the studio.

But, thats the way it goes.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

It was actually a very good idea, especially at that point. I've always felt the whole problem with the movie is its TITLE. If the movie had been called something else (everyone jokingly uses the name JASON TAKES A CRUISE, which is too silly, but you get the idea) I think the reaction to the movie would have been better. The fans would have said something like, "Wow! This time they did something different - had Jason aboard a cruise ship, and then as an added bonus had him hanging around Manhattan at the end! What a cool surprise!" It's amazing what a film's title can do. By the way, I don't think PART 8 is that good anyway, but.....

 

[Joe Karlosi]

It's too bad she didn't reprise the role for FVJ. I mean, at her age, I'd think she'd be pleased just to be in a new and successful movie. Because whether she likes it or not (and I'm not sure how she feels) her role as Mrs. Voorhees in the original F13 is probably what she'll be remembered for, and being seen today in a brand new and successful update of this theme wouldn't have been a bad way to go out, and something she could hang her hat on after she leaves this world. Because while I loved FVJ and thought they did an amazing job of breathing life into the idea, the one thing that soured me was the different actress as Jason's mom. It would have been very cool seeing Ms. Palmer again.

 

[Amy Mormino]

I just bought the set even though I'd only seen the first movie. I'm really having a lot of fun with this series. While the Nightmare and Halloween series have more distinguished individual entries, I think this one wins for consistency. I enjoyed Part VI quite a lot and I can't say that about the sixth entries for the other two series.

I do feel a little cheated that they promise a featurette on the making of the trailers that isn't included. I wouldn't think I would miss that, but the trailers are pretty good and I'd like to hear what the impression of the guy who did the voiceovers. And with the quality of the cut footage for Part I and maybe Part 6 they likely could have put those scenes back in, though I don't think any fan would want the talky deleted scenes for Part IV back in! Too bad the deleted scenes for Part VII are in lousy shape, as that movie could have really used them. Still, I got a decent price on the set and its well worth it for all the good stuff that is included.

 

[Matt Thompson]

At 19, I pretty obviously wasn't around yet, but I've heard that the film basically advertised itself as an origin story that exlains why Myers can't be killed.

Again, informative post. Where did you find the video information? That's interesting. As for alternate JTM titles, I always liked the sound of the working title, "Burial at Sea."

 

[mark*a]

All of the 4 BestBuy's in my area have soldout of the boxset!! Luckly I know someone who is holding a copy for me until 6pm today. So, I guess if this keeps up we will be getting SE release(s) in '05. He also said it has a sticker on the front of the box saying "Bonus Disc Jasons Unmasked included".

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Well, I went out as soon as Best Buy opened and bought the set. The first thing I did was watch the entire "killer extras" disc, so I've got some opinions on it.

While watching all 8 editions of the "chronicles" coverage back-to-back, I'm afraid it only became more and more obvious to me just how much of a shortcut was taken with this release. We start out okay with a good sampling of contributors involved with the first two or three movies, but this gradually tapers off. The biggest crime is that PART 5 runs a pathetic 5 minutes, and the only thing covered is Corey Feldman's cameo at the start of the movie!

The "gore scenes" were fun, but with parts 1 and 6 I didn't like the "split screen" technique, which was pretty confusing and often had my eyes jumping from the top to the bottom of the screen and then back again.

I got the "extra bonus disc" from Best Buy (which should have been included in all box sets, as it's very much designed like all the other "killer extras"). It's very curious that the panel discussion featured herein highlights the same Jason actors seen on camera in the "killer extras" section. It was shot at a FANGORIA convention back in January of course, where Larry Zerner again pops up for a moment or two. So it just felt so blatant (to me, anyway) that Toolbox (Paramount, whomever) took the easy route of gathering most of their "stars" from what was handy.

After all this griping, it's not like I didn't appreciate a lot of this. There was still fun to be had, and some interesting tidbits learned and so forth. As I've stated in the past, as a big fan of F13, I'll take whatever Paramount is going to give me for the series. I'm just more convinced than before - having now actually bought and seen this - that they could have gone farther, and should have. I don't know why Lar Park Lincoln (7), Amy Steel (2) and Adrienne King (1) were interviewed, but none of the other leading actresses (or actors) from the others were. I'd bet they - along with Corey Feldman incidentally - were at a convention somewhere too, which was lucky for Paramount/Toolbox.

I haven't heard the audio commentaries in full yet, but I zipped around PART 3 While it's great to hear Kimmell and Paul Kratka and Richard Brooker (Jason) added to the audio celebration, would someone please remind me of the history of the origin of this gathering? Because I would have liked to see those three participate ON CAMERA inside the "PART 3 CHRONICLES" too. We have four Jason actors visually included because we were lucky enough that they were all at a FANGO con at the same time. But where's Ted White (4) or Jason from #5? And let's not forget director Steve Miner and Danny Steinmann? Their absence seems very conspicuous now that I've watched the actual features for themselves.

So for me, the bottom line is what I figured - this set is not too pricey and so is a must if you have none of these already. Perhaps it's even worth it for a diehard, too. It's better than what we had before. But the ommissions are now glaringly obvious, at least to me.

 

[Robert Ringwald]

The FYE near me in new york city had the set for 65 bucks. It's number 20 on their best sellers list.

 

[Matt Thompson]

Ted White, from The Final Chapter, refuses to do anything connected with the series, as he hated working on the film, moreso because he felt the other actors and actresses were treated terribly than because of his own experience.