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HAMMER FILM BLU-RAYS IN THE U.K. ... getting closer to the Holy Grail (DRACULA, 1958)... (1 Viewer)

kinzoels

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Reed Grele said:
From what I'm reading about the transfer in Mr. Collins review, I... Well, get the "blues": "a bluer grade" "strikingly different blue colour timing" "a very deep and dark blue background" "bathed in blue" And frankly, his remarks leave me a bit "cold": "The hues in the colour grade are much cooler too" "colder, funereal tone" Nowhere in the review do I see the term "correct color timing". But I'll leave that to the experts here to expound upon. I'll not cancel my Amazon U.K. order, as this will most likely be the only game in town for a while, and it's one of my favorite films. Probably worth getting if only for the new footage and extras.
Consider these: Old castle=candle light....c1800 dwellings=gas light....nighttime=little light, and finally tombs=no light....and a comparison to my own 35MM print...very close..... I'm happy, so from my end I'll no longer labor this point..Next?
 

Stephen PI

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Reed Grele said:
From what I'm reading about the transfer in Mr. Collins review, I... Well, get the "blues": "a bluer grade" "strikingly different blue colour timing" "a very deep and dark blue background" "bathed in blue" And frankly, his remarks leave me a bit "cold": "The hues in the colour grade are much cooler too" "colder, funereal tone" Nowhere in the review do I see the term "correct color timing". But I'll leave that to the experts here to expound upon. I'll not cancel my Amazon U.K. order, as this will most likely be the only game in town for a while, and it's one of my favorite films. Probably worth getting if only for the new footage and extras.
From the Monsters HD broadcast: If the frame from Mr. Collins review is an accurate representation of the color grading, I prefer the color from the broadcast version as there is more separation in the color, despite the fact that it is cropped more.
 

haineshisway

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Caps are caps, but if one HAS to look at them I prefer the bottom cap in just about every way, color-wise - it's pretty correct.
 

Stephen PI

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A question. In your opinion is that a gravel path or grass Harker is walking on. In the top picture it resembles gravel as opposed to the green bushes surrounding it. In the bottom it seems to be all one color, path and bushes.
 

haineshisway

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Stephen PI said:
A question. In your opinion is that a gravel path or grass Harker is walking on. In the top picture it resembles gravel as opposed to the green bushes surrounding it. In the bottom it seems to be all one color, path and bushes.
I'll let you know when I see the actual disc as neither cap is probably of any value at all. All I can tell you is the sky looks much more correct to the IB prints than your other cap, which is too BROWN and not right at all. Have you seen an IB print? This is all moot, however - we'll know when we get the disc what the story really is.
 

johnSM

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Far more detail in the top HD broadcast sourced cap - check out the wings on the Eagle.
 

haineshisway

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johnSM said:
Far more detail in the top HD broadcast sourced cap - check out the wings on the Eagle.
Sorry, you have no idea how either shot was captured and posted - the captured shots on the current transfer are especially bad on that guy's review site. This is what happens all the time, but I suggest respectfully once again that the current transfer is actually viewed first. There are caps for movies on DVD Beaver where DVD caps look more detailed than the Blu-ray. This kind of rush to judgment has happened many times, and when the transfer is finally viewed everyone has to go, "Oops, lots of detail - that cap wasn't this detailed." We shall see in a few weeks.
 

kinzoels

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haineshisway said:
Sorry, you have no idea how either shot was captured and posted - the captured shots on the current transfer are especially bad on that guy's review site. This is what happens all the time, but I suggest respectfully once again that the current transfer is actually viewed first. There are caps for movies on DVD Beaver where DVD caps look more detailed than the Blu-ray. This kind of rush to judgment has happened many times, and when the transfer is finally viewed everyone has to go, "Oops, lots of detail - that cap wasn't this detailed." We shall see in a few weeks.
Some good points Bruce. Also, If I may, the HD cap is not from the same precise moment in time, (Harker looking up on the HD, to the side on the bluray) and any camera movement (even the film just passing through the filmgate) can cause some blurring between frames creating an effect of detail "loss".
 

Robert Harris

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Originally Posted by kinzoels
Some good points Bruce. Also, If I may, the HD cap is not from the same precise moment in time, (Harker looking up on the HD, to the side on the bluray) and any camera movement (even the film just passing through the filmgate) can cause some blurring between frames creating an effect of detail "loss".
Not on stationary elements within the frame. Only those in movement. The only change would be the grain pattern.
RAH
 

haineshisway

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bgart13 said:
Also, TV versions end up being manipulated more too, ie sharpened, DNR'd, etc.
Good point, too. People seem to enjoy the caps game, but it's usually for naught - I'm still hopeful this will look okay in terms of detail and clarity. Color-wise it already looks okay, although again, have to see the actual disc to know just how okay. But again, the color is completely off in the HD cap - too brown.
 

haineshisway

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Robert Harris said:
Not on stationary elements within the frame.  Only those in movement.  The only change would be the grain pattern. RAH
I'm stationary right now and yet am blurring and my grain structure is not stable. I hate when that happens. But at my age - oh, well.
 

kinzoels

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Robert Harris said:
Not on stationary elements within the frame.  Only those in movement.  The only change would be the grain pattern. RAH
Hello Robert and thanks for the correction... My question to you is, can you recommend a book or article on film restoration?
 

Bob Furmanek

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Their technical knowledge seems limited. I remember when they posted this image on their site last year and suggested that DRACULA was composed for 1.37.
11f6be02_Dracula_owl_137.jpeg
 
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Bob Furmanek said:
Their technical knowledge seems limited. I remember when they posted this image on their site last year and suggested that DRACULA was composed for 1.37.
11f6be02_Dracula_owl_137.jpeg
that was suppose to be a joke I didn't think they were trying to be serious with that image.
 

haineshisway

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Robert Harris said:
Nice piece, but it once again, asks more questions than it answers. Did the BFI actually have an original dye transfer "check print," or did they use the print derived from the OCN, before it was printed to the IP?  Ie. a new "check print." RAH
From what I've been told the people on the commentary and in the featurettes are saying - it was a dye transfer reference print. That's second-hand info, though. What's really funny about this Hammer response is that it sounds like a composite of posts made by you and me :) Maybe we're having an effect after all!
 

Alan Tully

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John Hodson said:
Mmm, you're not going to get rich reds & greens with a cold tone, & I still don't know how the BFI "restored" this, apart from inserting a few shots from a Japanese print (which I'd rather not have ,they weren't there on any UK cinema showings at the time). As far as I know (which is not much), Warner printed an interpositive. from the original negs & sent it to the BFI, & they worked from that, hardly a restoration. Oh well, not long now.
 

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