GTA3 ban in Australia...how sad... (1 Viewer)

[Morgan Jolley]

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories...832465,00.html
I can't believe that they are doing this. Its just wrong.

 

[JoelH]

While I understand the desire to establish community guidelines of decency, banning a game from distribution is only going to accomplish two things:

1) Ignore the fact that the manner in which parents bring up their kids has a much greater impact on their lives. A parent should make the decision for their child as to what is acceptable and what isn't.

2) Encourage a kind of "cult" status to the game. Inevitably, it will show up in some form and probably be more popular because of this.

I haven't played GTA3, so I can't comment on it specifically, but I would rather have the citizens of Australia not buy the game, making a stance, than have the government dictate that it is an unacceptable game.

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Joel

 

[BrianB]

2) Encourage a kind of "cult" status to the game. Inevitably, it will show up in some form and probably be more popular because of this.

Rockstar are working with the relevant authorities to implement changes to get it out in Australia.

It's nothing new - Germany, France, even the USA have been doing this kind of thing.

 

[Iain Lambert]

Germany does indeed regularly do this. One nice change for them is that because they have a law (very reasonably) against Nazi imagery, all the swastikas in the game are replaced with that stylized eagle thats on the cover. Personally I really like the idea, but then I have a bit of a problem with excessive realism in my fps games. Thats why the multiplayer modes also do this, so Germans can play against the rest of the world without two different sets of client graphics.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

The USA tried to censor games, as was shown in a Chicago ruling that forced arcade owners to put certain arcade games behind a dark curtain in a separate section at least 10' from regular games and require people to show ID to get to those games, but the ruling was overthrown (thank god).

Last year, I had to do a speech on the subject of videogame censorship. I showed a clip from Conker's Bad Fur Day, then thoroughly explained what the ESRB is and why it is in place and how stores are supposed to abide by the age limit ratings games are given if they choose to, which is a good idea. That speech came out to be twice as long as I had hoped.

Nonetheless, censorship of art is not a good thing. Maybe selective advertising could be used, and maybe there could be restricted sales, but an outright ban is just wrong.

Couldn't they just sell it only through a website and not advertise at all? The game has good online word of mouth.

 

[BrianB]

Nonetheless, censorship of art is not a good thing.

That's one of the best things I've read on the HTF in a long time. And I don't mean that in a patronising or sarcastic way, Morgan. I 100% agree with you.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I think we should keep the law out of it as much as possible. Gaming is not done through the government, and neither is film, art, music, etc. Granted, not all games are actual works of art (Kojima said MGS2 wasn't a piece of art, but rather an interactive experience based on the combination of his ideas and what people would want to do in the game, or something like that), but they shouldn't be tooled around by the government. Its my money, so why should they be able to force me to NOT spend it on what I want? I don't mind having to show ID to buy games, and I would like some stores to enforce that so people stop complaining, but if the government makes selling mature games to people under the age of 18, then I will be pissed.

I'm starting a new thread about something Lieberman and some other Senators did because while it is related, I think it deserves its own topic.

 

[Dan B]

Link Removed has an article tonight, Gaming Down Under, in which they discuss the GTA3 situation. Here is a snippet of the text which explains the problem:

There is a lot of confusion about why the game was released with an MA15+ rating, some reports say that the game was given this rating by the OFLC and released, only to have the OFLC review it again and change it to Refused classification status. Other reports say the review process was skipped completely. These are issues that will, more than likely, be resolved between the Governing body and Take 2 (the distributors of the game). What we should be concentrating on is why was the game refused classification in the first place?
For movies and Television in Australia we have a rating system in place, with each movie released falling into one of the below categories:
G - General Rating - Applies to movies and shows with content suitable for everyone to enjoy.
Example: Lion King
PG - Parental Guidance - Given to movies that Deal mostly with issues that may distress or confuse persons less than 15 years of age without adult guidance.
Example: Star Wars
M 15+ - Mature (Advisory) - although not legally restricting persons under 15 years of age viewing it, it is advised that they should not. Contains nudity, swearing and sex. Real depictions of Violence will also be deemed M15+ as long as it is not gratuitous or drawn out or exaggerated.. Nudity and other sexual content should be kept to lower levels. Course language may be used.
Example: Shindlers List
MA15+ - Mature persons Only, 15+ - Contains material that has been deemed suitable only for Adults,. Movies in this category have graphic violence and some gore, as well as graphic sexual content. This rating is legally restrictive to persons under 15 years of age.
Example: Braveheart
R - Restricted to adults 18 years and Over - Strong depictions of Violence and gore, sexual violence can only be implied not shown, sexual activity may be realistically simulated, No restrictions on coarse language when a movie is R rated.
Example: Robocop
X - Restricted to 18 years and over and can only legally be sold in 2 states in Australia - Pornography.
Examples: search the net
RC - Refused Classification - Movie deemed unsuitable for display, sale or hire in Australia.
Now lets look at the Video Game rating system in Australia, regulations for each are identical to their Movie counterparts :
G
PG
M 15+
MA15+
RC
Notice anything missing? Yep. An R rating (also X but that isn't as important). It seems that according to Australian law maker's adults don't play video games; therefore an R rating is not necessary. Recently there has been a push from within Victoria to revise the standards and include an R rating in video games. Premier Steve Bracks himself has said on a number of occasions that there should be an R classification for video games, and to make the system more understandable for consumers, over all media.
The problem with GTA3 is that it's not suitable for persons under 18 years of age. The game is of an extremely adult nature, featuring gratuitous violence, sexual themes, as well as drug references. If GTA3 was a movie, it would be R rated; I doubt many people would argue with that. One of the more brutal things you can do in the game, and which I suspect is the reason for the game being pulled off shelves, is the fact that there are extreme combinations of sex and violence. Australian Laws governing themes of this nature dictate strongly that sex on its own is fine, and violence on its own is ok too, but in GTA3, you can pick up a prostitute, have your way with her so to speak, and then brutally bash her head in to get your money back. This I can almost guarantee will not make it to the censored version and is to me the No 1 reason why it deserves the R rating rather than an MA15+. Australia is a relatively protected country, having far less tolerance for violence than other countries and that is reflected in our ratings system.
Now that you are aware of how the Video Game and Movie ratings system works in Australia, what do you think GTA3 should have been classified?
The problem is not necessarily with the OFLC, they have done what they had to do. They could not conscionably release a title like GTA3 into a market where it could fall into the hands of someone under 18 years of age. The real problem is the fact that they had no real choice, thanks to the lack of an R rating game classification for Video Games in Australia. This is a fault of the Government, not necessarily the body responsible for governing and handing out ratings, the OFLC.
These situations arise in Australia every so often, rarely is anything resolved to a point where both parties are gratified. Obviously if the game is re-released as an MA15+ title, certain things will be taken out of it. Perhaps humans will be replaced by Zombies (Carmageddon 64 style), green blood and nothing of an extreme sexual nature (Picking up prostitutes). This will negatively impact sales of the title, and will set an example to other distributors on adult orientated titles in Australia. If the current gaming legislation does not change, and include an R rating, then expect this situation to be repeated for many titles to come. I don't think I am alone when I say, that as a Tax paying, voting and mature adult, I am getting a little tired of the Government telling me what I can and can't view in my home. I understand that children should be protected, but surely those of us who are of an age to understand and handle the mature content, should be allowed to play/watch what ever we want.
Unfortunately a petition will not help in this situation, especially not a digital one. The only way to make it clear to the Government that you will not stand for this is to visit your local member of parliament, make them aware of the situation and demand a change. Hopefully the current push for a revision to the classification system will resolve issues like this in the future. A revised version of GTA3 is expected on shelves early in 2002.

-Dan B