Greedo shooting first and George Lucas. (1 Viewer)

[Seth Paxton]

You know what also sucks about it?
The scene as originally done is genius. Action cinema at it's very best. Rough and tough outlaw hero in the best tradition of the classic westerns.
Why would you WANT to mess with it?
If I got something that right, even by accident, I'd get the hell away from it ASAP so as not to somehow jinx it and mess it up.

 

[RobertR]

He shot because he knew that they were in danger and there was no bargaining with the Dark Lord himself

How is that any different from his situation with Greedo? He shoots first (at least in the original, as it should be)because he's "in danger, and there's no bargaining" with the ruthless bounty hunter.

 

[Jeffrey Forner]

Presumably Han knows Greedo before their little confrontation. (He does identify him by name when they first meet. It's possible that Han has dealt with him before and knows the Greedo might be a threat, so he arms himself under the table just in case. However, Han may have thought that he could sweet talk his way out of the situation, without needing to kill the bounty hunter. When Greedo fired, Han's natural reaction was to fight back.

As for Vader, let's just say that even though both he and Greedo are bad guys, Greedo is no where in the same league as Vader. Greedo's just a dumb bounty hunter that Han could handle easily. Now a Sith Lord? That's a different story.

And for the record, I do believe that the scene should have been left the way it is. There was nothing wrong with it in the first place. However, I think people blow the importance of thise one scene way out of proportion.

I know that the adults here that still have some 'kid' in them are really looking forward to a darker eps. 2 & 3, but it isn't going to happen. Darth may be on top when 3 ends, but if you think that GL will have everything go evil and wrong, I think you're going to be sorely disappointed. After all, he has to make sure that the kids will understand and enjoy it.

Well, Glenn, like Robert, you're in for a heck of a surprise.

 

[Kimmo Jaskari]

Barry, about the whole musical number... in the original version it was just a way to set the scene and show what Jabba's palace was like. It wasn't the freaking muppet show in space.

The whole dance number is out of place, over the top and "filmed" in a completely different visual style than the rest of it, it sticks out like a sore thumb and certainly didn't add anything to the movie except more cutesy aliens to be used in merchandising.

I'm not disputing the fact that Lucas is the guy who did the first movie. As it was done, it was in fact a great adventure movie and a genre builder. I just feel he should have left well enough alone and not added scenes.

Fixing stuff that were caused by real technical limitations, like semi-transparent canopies in fighters and perhaps even space scenes that weren't dynamic and fast-moving enough I can live with, but I dislike the large after-the-fact changes that IMHO were unnecessary and actually harmful.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Isn't it weird how Greedo was friends with Anakin and is now shot by a guy who is transporting Anakin's son to go kill Anakin?

 

[RobertR]

It's possible that Han has dealt with him before and knows the Greedo might be a threat, so he arms himself under the table just in case. However, Han may have thought that he could sweet talk his way out of the situation, without needing to kill the bounty hunter.

That analysis makes little sense. "Might be" a threat?? There's no "might be" about it. Greedo is POINTING A GUN at him, and forces him back to the table at gunpoint. Han OBVIOUSLY knows who and what Greedo is, which means he KNOWS that he is a bounty hunter who is there for the SPECIFIC purpose of bringing him in DEAD or alive to Jabba (who, of course, will kill him if he's still alive). He CAN'T reasonably think he can "sweet talk" his way out of anything (the conversation makes it obvious that won't happen). His ONLY survivable course is to KILL Greedo before he gets killed.

Lucas knew this, and originally (and PURPOSEFULLY) properly portrayed him as a badass who would do so without hesitation or being stupid enough to allow Greedo first chance at killing him.

Then, for reasons Lucas won't discuss (since he's chosen to lie about the whole thing), he changed his mind.

 

[Greg_Y]

Isn't it weird how Greedo was friends with Anakin and is now shot by a guy who is transporting Anakin's son to go kill Anakin?

If you're talking about the little Rodian that's dancing after Anakin wins the pod race, I don't think that's Greedo. In fact, I think his name is Wald.

 

[cafink]

Well, Glenn, like Robert, you're in for a heck of a surprise.

You've seen the movie? You have some kind of inside information that the rest of us don't? Spill the beans!

 

[Jeffrey Forner]

Carl;

No, I haven't seen the movie. The closest I've come is I've read the scriptment that was posted at TheForce.Net until recently. Although a good portion of the film was not found in the scriptment, what was present came across as very dark, and very sad. The movie starts off on a down note, and gets worse from there.

Robert, I'll deal with your post later tonight. I'm at work now and don't have the time to properly respond to it now. Rest assured, my explanation does make sense. I can't believe you don't see it. It's so obvious.

 

[Coressel]

in the original version it was just a way to set the scene and show what Jabba's palace was like. It wasn't the freaking muppet show in space.

Are you kidding???

In 1983, I most definately cringed and felt like I was seeing exactly that: The Muppets in space.

I'll take the Special Edition of ROTJ over the original stick-puppet joke any day.

 

[Kimmo Jaskari]

Well, I didn't like either version of the musical stuff, but the former version at least had the virtue of being somewhat more unnoticeable. The new number is way too long and too elaborate imho and just... well, stinks.

 

[Norm]

The other idea he thankfully didn't follow through with was taking out all the violence in the detention area when Han, Chewie and Luke blast out all the cameras and Death Star troopers. It could've ended up just cameras being shot and no guards.

Former ILM Employee Interview. http://www.cinescape.com/24/editoria...e&obj_id=31571

 

[James D S]

Han's redemption is a major part of the whole Original Trilogy.

Couldn't agree more. These new versions completely neuter what was once a compelling side-story - Han's transformation from scoundrel to hero. In Lucas's latest abomination, Han starts out as a hero. Where's the intrigue in that?

 

[Carlo_M]

Norm, thank you for that article.

I linked to one with ex-producer Gary Kurtz, which was also a good read. Of course, any negative comments he had to say (and they weren't purely negative, they were always in context and tactfully delivered) were shot down by the Pro-Lucas camp as "just another bitter ex-employee" interview. This new article, at least, shows that there is at least more than one of them who share those viewpoints. Keep in mind Gary Kurtz worked on SW and ESB, and this Mark Austin worked on the SE of SW in the mid-90's. Some salient quotes:

George again. Jabba was modeled and looked incredible. Just like the ROTJ puppet. George wanted him both slimmer and younger, so the model was vandalized. There were so many bad decisions. So many "yes men" who didn't dare question. I remember seeing Spaz's face when the whole "Han stepping over Jabba's tail" issue came up. It was a classic face. One that said volumes.

 

[Jeffrey Forner]

Robert;

As promised, here's my response to your last post.

Here's how the scene plays out for me when I watch it. Greedo confronts Han, and Han's first reaction is to try and get rid of Greedo. "Tell Jabba that I've got his money." The pirate doesn't want a scuffle. He just wants to give Jabba the money he owes so that he can put this ordeal with the dumped shipment behind him.

However, Greedo doesn't listen to him. He tells Han about the bounty that's been placed on his head. Han calmly informs Greedo--while slowly grabbing hold of his gun--that he has the money he needs to pay Jabba, implying that there's no need to turn him in. Greedo, seeing an opportunity for a quick buck, tells Han that if he gave him the money, that he "might" forget that he found him. Of course Han realizes what that means and tells him that he doesn't have the money with him. (After all, he didn't have the money yet.) Discouraged, Greedo threatens Han even further, telling him that Jabba has no time for smugglers like him, and that if Han's lucky, Jabba may only take his ship. When Han replies, "Over my dead body," Greedo says, "That's the idea," it's clear that one of these guys is going down. We all know the outcome of this encounter, no matter which version we watch.

As you can see, Han does try to talk himself out of the situation first. He doesn't jut blast Greedo right away. He only fired as a last resort.

Now with Vader, that's a different story. Have we forgotten that Han, Leia, Chewie and C-3P0 were actively pursued by the Empire through most of the film? I'm sorry, but when you see Darth Vader, you don't sit and negotiate with him. Vader gets what he wants, end of story. Han knew this and reacted as such. If words wouldnt' make a difference, then at least he could try to defend himself with a few well-aimed laser shots at the Dark Lord. Unfortunately, it didn't work out so well, as well all know now

 

[Sam Davatchi]

Norm Thanks a lot for the link. Very interesting article. My favorite part was this:

What did you think of Episode I? Did you like it?

M: Ummmmmm...I think you already know the answer to this one. No. And let me just say this. I went to the midnight screening at the AMC, Burbank CA with such high hopes. I'd heard it was bad from gossip but thought that being a true Star Wars fan would smooth over most anything. The critics weren't fans after all. I tried with everything I had to make allowances and love the movie. I saw it five times, hoping that the old magic would appear. "It's just because it's 'new' and been a long time coming" I told myself. I tried to focus on the parts I loved, like the race and the duel. The music was SO right. I held these things close and tried to ignore the nagging pieces that just didn't fit, hoping they'd dissolve.

But they wouldn't go.

By the way about the Greedo scene and the censored imperial officers being hit by blasters. I think, that interview confirms it and it’s clear now that Lucas tried to CENSOR them and reduce the violence. It’s unfortunate how some fans no matter what, try to explain and make excuses for whatever Lucas does.

 

[Sam Davatchi]

How would the less violent detention block rescue scene have been reworked?

The scenes with guards would have been edited out traditionally and the scenes with cameras exploding reduced in number.

 

[RobertR]

Han calmly informs Greedo--while slowly grabbing hold of his gun--that he has the money he needs to pay Jabba, implying that there's no need to turn him in.

Jeff;

The key phrase there is "while slowly grabbing hold of his gun". He is furtively preparing to blow Greedo away, and the entire conversation is nothing more than a stalling tactic on his part while he prepares to do so. How do I know it's purely a stalling tactic and not a serious attempt to talk Greedo out of anything? Because the conversation tells us that Greedo would take the money from Han and kill him ANYWAY, then collect the bounty from Jabba. Han knows it. We know it. Also, we know that Han DOESN'T have the money (he doesn't get an amount sufficient to pay off his debts until WAY later, at the Rebel base).

Greedo is ITCHING to kill Han ("I've been waiting a long time for this") and is pointing his weapon RIGHT at him the ENTIRE time with his finger on the trigger (which makes Greedo's miss at such ridiculously close range in the SE totally ludicrous). Would YOU wait for someone to shoot you in such a situation? Would any sane person with balls (which Han obviously has)? No. Han makes the coldly calculated (and quite rational) decision to kill, with NO forewarning. This tells us that Han is NOT to be messed with. As pointed out earlier, the original scene is pure genius in its evocation of ruthless Old West gunslingers (check out the Tuco bathtub scene in The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly to see something very similar).

Too bad Lucas had to fuck it up.

 

[Mark Zimmer]

You know what also sucks about it?

The scene as originally done is genius. Action cinema at it's very best. Rough and tough outlaw hero in the best tradition of the classic westerns.

Why would you WANT to mess with it?

If I got something that right, even by accident, I'd get the hell away from it ASAP so as not to somehow jinx it and mess it up.

Seth, that's exactly right. And it just points up how completely clueless Lucas is about what makes the original trilogy appeal to people. He seems to think it's because of poop jokes and dancing muppets and high tech gee whiz, and not because of the human element. His idea of a character arc is a soap opera revelation. The only astonishing part is how he happened to luck into this in the first place.

 

[Rollie]

We also need to forget what we know about Vader. He may be The Dark Lord of the Sith and the killer of Jedi, but Han Solo doesn't know that. How many people in the original trilogy know who Vader is? The answer, of course, is not many. The complete history of the Jedi has been purged by The Empire.

Han Solo is a smuggler, he's used to being on the run. Vader may be chasing him, but that's no different from what's happened to him in the past. He's had bounty hunters pursuing him longer than Vader ever could. Why would Han treat Vader any differently than Greedo? To Han, Vader isn't a badass Dark Jedi. He's some scary dude with asthma in a big black suit.

Just remember, "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side."