Gone With the Wind physical copies are now sold out everywhere... (Thanks to HBO Max) (1 Viewer)

[TJPC]

Its always strange to me how movies are made in many eras which tried to be as liberal as possible for their times, but today seem absolutely racist to the audiences of today who do not know the context.

For instance, try comparing the movie of Show Boat or GWTW to their original novels. They were “cleaned” up for the screen.

I often think of Mae West. She apparently insisted on having as many black actors and musicians in her movies as possible. Today when she is saying “Beula peal me a grape” to her black maid, we see her as a racist.

 

[cadavra]

And this is Reason #637,829 why we must NEVER give up on physical media.

 

[darkrock17]

I heard tonight on CNNs Don Lemmon show that the maid called Missy was the first black woman to win an Oscar.

Her name is Mammy, not Missy; there is another character called Prissy played by Butterfly McQueen were she chews up the scenery in every scene that she's in.

 

[jayembee]

I heard tonight on CNNs Don Lemmon show that the maid called Missy was the first black woman to win an Oscar. Mutherfuckers wouldn't let her into the area of seating with all the other actors cuz she was black. The historian guest said it was a crummy portrayal of a black person, They never gave her a name throughout the whole movie just Missy.

All that outrage, and you don't seem to have made a point of finding out the name of the actress in question. Funny thing, she -- Hattie McDaniel -- once said of the role (and others like it), "I'd rather play a maid than be one."

As for the seating thing...that was a fairly common thing back in the day. Despicable, but common. Lena Horne, when on tour in the South sang in the ballrooms of fancy hotels, and yet, had to enter said hotels via the "servant's" entrance instead of the front door. That story has been said about Horne, but I'm sure it happened to every other black performer of the time.

 

[MatthewA]

Time to erase even movies that portray racism in a flattering way.

You can start and end with this one. Jane Darwell, so memorable as Dolly Merriweather here and the following year in her Oscar-winning performance as Ma Joad in the film of another classic American novel, The Grapes of Wrath, was so horribly wasted.

 

[darkrock17]

You can start and end with this one. Jane Darwell, so memorable as Dolly Merriweather here and the following year as Ma Joad in the film of another classic American novel, The Grapes of Wrath, was so horribly wasted.

Oh no, here comes another Mary Poppins tirade.

 

[MatthewA]

It's time to stop picking on Gone with the Wind and Song of the South and pick on a movie that deserves it for a change. Not only was the NYT right, which is not something I say very often, they didn't go far enough. They should have called for it to be pulled from circulation instead of Song of the South and certainly instead of GWTW. These two movies actually are classics that deserve to be seen, made available, and put in the proper historical context. If you want to erase movies for racism, then pick one that actually is racist. Yes, I'm offended by that imagery. Very much offended by it. More offended by it than literally anything in Song of the South or GWTW or (almost) anything Norman Lear ever produced*. And it offends me because it values fake black people over real ones. The black people in SotS and GWTW are actually black. Taking the work of black actors away but not this grotesque fakery is what I consider racist. You don't have to be black to be offended by it. You just have to have a conscience.

*The man gave Tony Danza work after Taxi was canceled. I can't and won't forgive that. For all the hate Norman Lear gets from some HTF members, this is the one time he deserved it. That vile show of his ripped off Gimme A Break! and got away with it. This is why it's not fair to call Webster a ripoff of Diff'rent Strokes when DS ripped off The Brady Bunch first in several episodes, most notably the Muhammad Ali episode which was basically the same as Joe Namath's meeting as Bobby Brady, and that's just for starters. While building an empire on remakes of British shows and spinoffs thereof, Norman Lear ripped off Eric Monte and had him blacklisted in Hollywood. Credited or not, Lear still owned Embassy until 1985 so he bears responsibility. And no one on Webster has a record of violence against women caught on tape. Just horses. So how much of a future does Blazing Saddles have?

 

[David Norman]

I love this younger generation. They are coming out of the woodwork to the dangerous streets filled with virus and standing in support of our black brothers and sisters.

As they did is the 60's and early 70's -- hope it works out better this time "gettin' so much resistance from behind"

It amazing when it comes to making a living, so much Living life the 'right way' seems to get lost

 

[Jeffrey D]

Not sure why anyone cares or would react to anything done by HBO Max? Warner owns the film. If they were to announce the film was going on indefinite moratorium, then I might be concerned. Warner must be loving the boost in sales due to all the free publicity.

People are bizarre.

In addition to my blu-ray, I still have a copy of the 4-disc DVD Collector's Edition. I wonder how much that's worth today?

View attachment 73951

Yes I have this DVD collection too, also one of the BluRay releases.

What would be appalling is if Warner monkeys with the film by way of scene or dialog deletions-
we don’t need that.

 

[MatthewA]

If people are scared, it’s because next time it might not just be HBO Max they take it away from.

 

[English Invader]

In addition to my blu-ray, I still have a copy of the 4-disc DVD Collector's Edition. I wonder how much that's worth today?

I picked up a copy of this from a local film and music shop for £20 about 9 months ago and I'm delighted with it. This was actually my first experience of the film and enjoying it as part of such a wonderful collector's piece was the icing on the cake.

At the end of the day, I don't think we need a special documentary to tell us that outdated attitudes are wrong and that all people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. These are lessons that really ought to be taught in schools and I would say if people are picking up the wrong messages from period-specific films that something has gone wrong with their education.

There is an episode of the Fresh Prince of Bel Air that springs to mind when the subject of black slavery comes up. Will Smith complains that his American History class isn't covering black people and he gets more than he bargained for when his PhD educated aunt takes over the class and drives them crazy with homework about the plantations. I think there are a lot of young people (of all races) who are into protest for the drama but it's a different story when it comes to learning about the history of how the world got to where it is.

 

[Glenn C.]

All that outrage, and you don't seem to have made a point of finding out the name of the actress in question. Funny thing, she -- Hattie McDaniel -- once said of the role (and others like it), "I'd rather play a maid than be one."

As for the seating thing...that was a fairly common thing back in the day. Despicable, but common. Lena Horne, when on tour in the South sang in the ballrooms of fancy hotels, and yet, had to enter said hotels via the "servant's" entrance instead of the front door. That story has been said about Horne, but I'm sure it happened to every other black performer of the time.

In the South, yet, this was in Hollywood.

 

[Glenn C.]

I heard tonight on CNNs Don Lemmon show that the maid called Missy was the first black woman to win an Oscar.

As others have corrected you, her name was Mammy.

 

[Glenn C.]

Its always strange to me how movies are made in many eras which tried to be as liberal as possible for their times, but today seem absolutely racist to the audiences of today who do not know the context.

For instance, try comparing the movie of Show Boat or GWTW to their original novels. They were “cleaned” up for the screen.

I often think of Mae West. She apparently insisted on having as many black actors and musicians in her movies as possible. Today when she is saying “Beula peal me a grape” to her black maid, we see her as a racist.

I never heard anybody calling Mae West a racist. Is there a source for that?

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Here is the statement:

“Gone With The Wind is a product of its time and depicts some of the ethnic and racial prejudices that have, unfortunately, been commonplace in American society. These racist depictions were wrong then and are wrong today, and we felt that to keep this title up without an explanation and a denouncement of those depictions would be irresponsible. These depictions are certainly counter to WarnerMedia’s values, so when we return the film to HBO Max, it will return with a discussion of its historical context and a denouncement of those very depictions, but will be presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. If we are to create a more just, equitable and inclusive future, we must first acknowledge and understand our history."

So, Warner Brothers put out this statement? What was the role of HBO Max in this?

I got a text from somebody yesterday asking me to comment on Gone with the Wind being "banned" and was not aware that it was so just said no comment. I wanted to find out what the story was prior to saying anything. So, has Warner actually said they will not be making this available any longer? Has the picture been "banned" from television showings? In all honesty, I'm with Kubrick on the film itself and think it is a lousy picture and have no need to see it again but it should not be "banned."

 

[TravisR]

So, Warner Brothers put out this statement? What was the role of HBO Max in this?

I got a text from somebody yesterday asking me to comment on Gone with the Wind being "banned" and was not aware that it was so just said no comment. I wanted to find out what the story was prior to saying anything. So, has Warner actually said they will not be making this available any longer? Has the picture been "banned" from television showings? In all honesty, I'm with Kubrick on the film itself and think it is a lousy picture and have no need to see it again but it should not be "banned."

They pulled it from their streaming service but said they're putting it back with a warning (a la their Looney Tunes cartoons that have warnings) so it's basically no big deal. As an aside, I fully agree that it's a crappy movie but as you said, that doesn't mean it should be banned.

 

[TJPC]

I never heard anybody calling Mae West a racist. Is there a source for that?

That is my point. No author etc. would call her or has called her a racist. I am speaking of modern uneducated people who come across one of her movies and see how black people are portrayed.

 

[Angelo Colombus]

When a group of us saw Gone With The Wind last year in the theater an African American member of our group liked the film and understands it was made in 1939 and not today. I think it's a great film and should be left alone.

 

[David_B_K]

Time to erase the monuments, flags, and even movies that portray racism in a flattering way. Change is happening and it is long overdue.

One does not have to like a film (or play or novel or song), etc that does not live up to one's expectations. If one wants to hate Gone With the Wind , that is fine. But I do not understand the people that want to ban it for what it is not. "It doesn't show the horrors of slavery", etc. Why should it show that? That was not the movie they set out to make. They could have had some big battle scenes as well, but it was not about battles either. It is the story of a spoiled southern belle at the time of the decline of the old south. The film follows her quite closely from her point of view and it is clear that she cares nothing about the plight of slaves or anyone else. She is largely oblivious to the Civil War itself. The character of Mammy is shown to be of a higher moral fibre that Scarlett. Scarlett basically floats though the story caring about little but herself. It is essentially a "woman's film" and not a social commentary. It could have been an indictment of slavery and racism, but that is not what it is. It is just a story.

There is no reason to take the story as being representative of anything other than its story. If people want to see it as a definitive statement of history they are taking it way too seriously. If you say "but people watching the movie take it as real history", then that's too bad if they can't tell a movie from history. And the decision to exclude Hattie McDaniel from the seating area with the rest of the cast is on the hotel that hosted the Academy Awards and is something that has nothing to do with the film. Banning the film would go a long way toward banning Hattie McDaniel's story as well. She was competing against Olivia De Havilland who was probably a strong favorite (Selznick badly want De Havilland to win) and she pulled off a major upset and made history with her win. I wonder if people were embarrassed to see Hattie have to rise and walk from the segregated section to receive her award?

 

[PMF]

[...]
At the end of the day, I don't think we need a special documentary to tell us that outdated attitudes are wrong and that all people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. These are lessons that really ought to be taught in schools and I would say if people are picking up the wrong messages from period-specific films that something has gone wrong with their education.[...]

I abhor all forms of racism and censorship.

Now, with that clearly stated, I feel that pre and post disclaimers; and even documentaries; are a great and necessary tool.

The “education” begins with the parents; and, heartbreakingly, hatred - if not ignorance- remains ever present. So, if this is the message to which young innocents are beginning their days then, consequently, why not also a healthy and intelligent preface to begin their films?

Indeed, Rogers & Hammerstein had said it best with their 1949 “South Pacific” composition of “You’ve Got to Be Carefully Taught”.