DVD-Audio ?

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by JoeHard, Mar 23, 2004.

  1. JoeHard

    JoeHard Stunt Coordinator

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    I recently upgraded to a Rotel RSP 1066 so I could take advantage of the DVD-Audio feature of my Yamaha DVD-C920.I have noticed on some discs,Diana Krall Love Scenes for example, there seems to be much more room resonance when listening to the DVD-A tracks as compared to listening in the hi-res 2 channel. I have tried the DTS Neo 6 and 5 channel stereo modes and don't seem to have the same problem. I run all speakers full range as the Rotel won't do bass management. I have DefTech Bp2002 and CLR 2002 with Polk surrounds and no sub.The DVD-A sounds great except for the room interaction, as anyone else had similar trouble.
     
  2. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Joe: To be honest, I have never heard surround music on an all bipolar 5.1 speaker system before so all that reflected 360 degree sound output may just be causing an oversupply of surround effect. But the following caught my eye & causes me to not believe this:


    (I'm assuming you used the dvd-audio's stereo tracks to do this)

    So, my next theories are:

    1) that you may possibly just be unused to how surround music sounds.

    or what I believe is probably happening.....

    2) The 5.1 mix was treated differently from the stereo mix.


    Here are some examples of #2:

    The surround mix on the Yes Fragile dvd-audio has much more reverb than the original stereo mix (me and many others actually think it has too much but that's another thread!). And, this reverb shows up on all the formats on the disc--MLP (dvd-audio), DTS & Dolby Digital. The positive side of all this is that the mix was constructed from the original multitrack master tapes and is much clearer and detailed sounding than the stereo mix which was made from the original stereo master from 1973 and this is clearly evident on even the DTS/Dolby tracks. I wish they would have remastered the stereo track in a similar fashion--the sound itself of the 5.1 track is that much better. end of plug for this disc! [​IMG]

    The Who's Tommy on 5.1 sacd. When they (I believe Pete Townsend himself assisted with it) remixed "Pinball Wizard" into 5.1 form, for some reason they took OUT most of the reverb that has been there for all these years and made it sound quite dry. I didn't much like this change myself (& the main vocal is discretely placed in the center channel, making it even drier sounding).

    Not all surround mixes alter the sound of the original stereo version like the above examples, but this is why classic albums receive so much scrutiny when they are re-released in surround form.

    FYI: Some reasons for the present slow rate of surround title releases: original artists being unavailable for remixing advice due to conflicting concert tour schedules or recording another album; present lack of 5.1 mixing facilities; lack of qualified surround mixers; or original multitrack tapes can't be located (this is why Yes' planned Close To The Edge 5.1 dvd-audio is still in limbo).

    LJ
     
  3. Blaine_M

    Blaine_M Second Unit

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    If I understand it right if you don't have a sub, won't you be missing the .1? Sounds like you might want to check into one of the Outlaw Audio ICBM things that everyone on here has talked about. That would get the .1 mixed into the rest of your sound.
     
  4. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    no, he won't miss the ".1". he sets his system up as "no sub", that's all. then the LFE/.1 channel is redirected to his front speakers.
     
  5. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Thats what is supposed to happen, but most players that have been discussed in these forums do not do this correctly with DVD-A and SACD.

    He would need a test disc with a discrete .1 channel tone in DVD-A (I like the Chesky Ultimate DVD for this purpose) to know for sure. Or, if you had a disc where most of the bass were already redirected to the .1 channel in the mix, that would also work, although the only disc I am aware of with most of the bass in the .1 is Bowie's Heathen, and thats a SACD title.

    I don't know his player, so can't comment, but I would not assume that it handles it correctly for hi-rez, although it likely will get it right for DD/DTS.

    BGL
     
  6. JoeHard

    JoeHard Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks fo all replies. I have considered the ICBM as I don't believe my surrounds will handle full range signal.I do believe I am getting the .1 lfe signal because lack of bass is certainly not a problem.
     
  7. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Again, you won't know for sure without a test disc. Since disc authoring is all over the map, you really can't tell based on one single disc sounding right.

    There are titles that mix all the bass in the main channels (which would sound fine on a system w/o a sub, assuming the main channels are good to 40 hz or so), and as as I said, some that mix it all in the .1.

    I stumbled upon the differences in authoring quite by accident. I re-arranged my rack, and unknown to me, the .1 output from my player came loose between it an the ICBM. When I cued up David Bowie's Heathen SACD (a very bass heavy disc) I couldn't figure out why the hell it sounded so lean. I popped in Hotel California (a DVD-A with very good bass) and it sounded fine. WTF?

    The problem was that HC was sending all (or most) of its bass to the ICBM via the main channels, which the ICBM was then sending to the sub. But since Heathen had most of its low end already on the .1, the ICBM had nothing to pass along.

    Anyway, the Chesky Disc (Ultimate DVD) is a great tool to have, as it has an entire suite of tests for channel balance, BM, and what not, both in DD and DVD-A. Plus there are a half dozen music tracks in 4.0 that sound fabulous.

    Good luck.

    BGL
     
  8. JoeHard

    JoeHard Stunt Coordinator

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    Brian L,
    Allright, You have convinced me that I need this Chesky DVD. Where do I find it. Thanks again.
    Joe Hard
     
  9. BrentPollard

    BrentPollard Second Unit

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    Forgive me if this sounds elementary but are you listening to both the Multi channel and the 2 channel in Hi-Rez or thru the digital cable. I ask this because the way I read your post is that these sound better when using Neo or 5 channel stereo which are DSP modes. If you are listening thru the Multi outs, you would not apply these processes.
     
  10. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    http://www.chesky.com/

    When you get there, type in Ultimate DVD in the search box. That said, I would wager that this can also be found at Amazon and other on-line retailers.

    In case anyone is interested, here is a link to a FAQ that was prepared be several members of the HTF:

    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...22#post1800722

    It has some good stuff regarding set-up of hi-rez players.

    BGL
     
  11. JoeHard

    JoeHard Stunt Coordinator

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    Brent,
    Valid point but Rotel is supposed to select the multi input when external is selected. However I always choose the multi in from the cd input to make sure I'm not getting the toslink signal. Thanks
     

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