Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars? (1 Viewer)

[Edwin-S]

Speaking of "fanboys".

 

[Rob_Walton]

I've never really understood this argument that the DVD forum should somehow decide the next-gen optical format. They don't make decisions for VCD or Laserdisc, nor for CD, VHS, or any other delivery medium. The only remit of this body is to provide a space for the CE companies to oversee the standard known as DVD. That's it. It seems odd to try and attribute them some official status within the CE industry that simply doesn't exist. They have a very narrow remit, which some have tried to expand, for various reasons.

Who's to blame for the format war? The use of the word "blame" depends on people thinking the dispute hasn't genereally been a good thing. Look at the changes and improvements both formats have made pre-launch and tell me there hasn't been any benefit to this "war". HD DVD was originally planned to be red laser and didn't have a great deal of interest in next gen audio - that has clearly changed. Similarly BD was going to utilise MPEG2 for both recordables and pre-recordables before the other codecs were later added to the spec. These look like pretty major improvements to me.

On the issue of WB and their apparent altruistic stance against Divx, don't forget that they hold a share in a number of patents used in DVD technology. That's one of the things which has made it so unusual to see them show support for BD so early only, since they would continue to collect their royalties on HD DVD but not on BD. Odd move on their part, and, judging by some of the mixed messages coming from press releases, not universally popular within the company. I get the impression the people involved at WB would have preferred to go HD DVD only, but were over-ruled by more senior figures, possibly within the holding company of Time Warner. Of course, I could be well off the mark on that one!

Dave, you mentioned not seeing a JVC player announced anytime soon: does it really matter if it says JVC on the box instead of Panasonic? Truely. I'm not sure entirely how these brands are seen in other places, but over here the two are pretty much identical in terms of quality products, for obvious reasons.

The one name not mentioned so far is Microsoft. It's my belief that they kept HD DVD going during some particularly rocky times last year, especially when Paramount and WB had just announced they were abandoning their HD DVD only stance and switching to a more neutral position. Microsoft have been championing their new codec to all and sundry, and working directly with studios to try and get them to switch to their way of thinking. One of their reps (a familiar online voice) has been visiting studios and CEs personally to make their case and apparently convinced HP to switch. That's even before the work on OS for the next HD players and the general confidence they've given to HD DVD by being so closely associated with that format - "How can it fail with such a powerful company backing it?"- goes the argument.

The motivation for MS to play this game is fairly clear. They want these HD formats to fail, or, perhaps better, not fully succeed. The Microsoft vision is a streaming VOD future, where Java is a thing of the past and a form of the media center (powered by a windows os of course) sits at the heart of every living room. I guess that's why they've been willing to lose so much money on the Xbox division up untill this point. So, for me, the key player so far in prelonging this format battle is MS not any of the CE manufactueres or movie studios.

 

[PeterTHX]

You mean chased off or slammed personally.

Throwing words around like "deplorable" or "fiasco" isn't going to make it true. BD has yet to gear up fully, the war has yet to fully be engaged. Sony's player isn't out, neither is the PS3 or Panasonic or any others.

BD50s aren't expected until October (and you seriously expect HD45s???).
VC-1 discs are arriving within a month. Paramount has officially announced their titles, Fox has yet to but will any time now.

Comparing costs of first gen hardware is laughable. So is comparing the issues. Remeber when DVD was out in 1997? I remember players locking up or skipping on RSDL. No DTS. No component or progressive scan. Discs with many motion artifacts, edge enhancement, lack of 16x9.

I've said it repeatedly. I'm in it for the long haul. I look beyond the first few weeks. I don't have ADD when it comes to making long term investments in my electronics.

 

[Rob_Walton]

It's unfortunate that Nils is not posting here anymore. Hopefully he'll come back, as did David Boulet. Looking back on Nils' last post it looks as though he was put through the ringer by one poster in particular, and decided he'd had enough. That's a shame.

 

[Edwin-S]

No. I remember what happened. Unfortunately, Nils got the boot.

 

[Rob_Walton]

I didn't know he'd been banned. Does it say banned under a posters name on this forum?

 

[Bob Black]

I'm no fanboy. I bought into HD-DVD because of the price. I continue to extoll it's PQ because it delivers. Period. Something that BD does not do. And I have no intention of buying into BD because it's not worth the price and is filled with empty promises.

BTW - the articles I cited were to demonstrate the FUD spread around here regarding BD and Sony's political sidestepping.

 

[Bob Black]

I never said I expected HD45's anytime soon -- they do have the ability to manufacture these, however (although I see no need for them since HD-DVD delivers the goods). BD50, on other hand, should have been available at launch and should be the norm for BD releases, as this has been the selling factor in the format since day 1! Without this DL capability, there is absolutely no need for the format. And where do you see dual-layer BD in October?? The few releases expected have been delayed indefinitely, with no sign of this type of disc. If you are referring to the infamous "AIR" anime release in Japan, that is simply pathetic. A limited release, $200+ anime set in Japanese that the few BD hopefuls are clinging their DL dreams upon -- which probably won't even be released on dual-layered discs. Until they are produced in mass quantities and in stores, please don't even mention 50GB discs again. They are nothing more than vaporware now.

 

[Larry Sutliff]

I'm glad that the "familiar online voice" did what he did. Otherwise, we'd be stuck with the crappy MPEG2 codec that is ruining Sony's BD releases. Thank goodness for VC-1.

Y'know, I have to laugh when I read posts that seem to be stuck in 2005 and seem to ignore the fact that both formats are here now, and we don't need online rhetoric to find the truth. Both formats are here, and we can see for ourselves which side was blowing smoke, and which one was intent on delivering the goods.

 

[RobertR]

I agree completely. I'm annoyed by the people trying to have it both ways, as in "Blu-ray-is-better-because-of-BD50-and-if-BD50-isn't-here-Blu-ray-is-better-anyway". :rolleyes

 

[Rob_Walton]

This is just another manifestation of the old here-and-now vs wait-and-see debate. Since neither format offers anywhere near what I require at this point there's nothing for me to judge yet except some pretty tentative early shots. Not that this is anything to do with this thread's subject, but then they all seem to get side-tracked in this way don't they...

 

[PeterTHX]

Broken promises?

I don't seem Sony promising consumers BD50 at launch.

Facts are by Christmas season this year:

6 BD players will be on the market.
BD50s will be in production and on store shelves.
VC-1 discs will be plentiful.
All studios except Universal will have BD discs on the shelf.
PlayStation 3 will have sold 1-2 million units.

Let us not forget BD is making money.

So, come Christmas do you really think that people will be muttering about "broken promises" and the like?

 

[RobertR]

It sure is hard to get a consistent date from you (or anyone else). Just days ago, October "seemed right". Before that, it was August. Now it's Christmas....

 

[cafink]

I don't see any inconsistency in Peter's comments, If BD50s arrive in October, as he speculates, then they will indeed be "on store shelves by Christmas," as he also states.

 

[RobertR]

Strictly speaking, he could say the same thing about Christmas 2007 or 2008. But if they "arrive" by October, then they should be on store shelves by October ("arrival" means nothing if people can't buy the discs). This is what I mean about all the ambiguity and inability to pin anything down. "Oh, I didn't mean by arrival that anyone could actually BUY anything". Well, that IS what I mean. When can we buy 50 gb discs in quantity?. PERIOD.

 

[cafink]

Of course I would not presume to speak for Peter. However, his "Christmas" post strikes me as completely reasonable. I would imagine he used Christmas instead of Halloween because, even if BD50s are on the shelves by Halloween, several of the other items he mentioned (6 BD players, "plentiful" VC-1 discs, and a million-selling PS3) will not be. I don't get the impression that Peter was trying to deceive anyone with that post. But perhaps I should allow Peter to speak for himself rather than speculate further on what he might be thinking.

 

[PeterTHX]

Sigh. The HD DVD attackers want to play semantics.

BD50s in October. On the shelves in Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, ad nauseum.

I was saying by the end of the year all these things will have come to pass.
In October BD50s will be, but PS3s will not. So I used Christmas as an all encompassing thing. Basic English.

 

[RobertR]

A firm prediction. Good.

 

[BrettGallman]

I think it's unfair that some people have bought into one current format, be it HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, and have completely shut their minds off to the other.

I'm a proud HD-DVD owner, and yes I am disappointed with what Blu-Ray has had to offer so far. That's not to say the format can't improve and meet all the potential that many (myself included) touted pre-launch. I'm a big gamer, and I'll hopefully get a PS3 in the fall, and I'd be lying if I said I won't check out some BD discs. If I find enough discs are out there to warrant a purchase of a standalone player once the price becomes more reasonable, I'll buy one.

The fact is, HD-DVD is half the price right now, and if it were the same price as Blu-Ray, I'd be skipping both formats for the time being. As a tech nut, I want the best format to win out in the end, but it's going to be a while before we get a clear consensus on that. Just because I've jumped aboard the HD-DVD wagon now doesn't mean I'll find it the best in a year or so.

So empty rhetoric is pointless, but so too is declaring a winner after a couple of months.

 

[Tim Glover]

Good summary Brett.