Diplomatic immunity: too easily exploited (1 Viewer)

[Holadem]

Makes sense among nations and cultures that share very similar values, values which are the cornerstones of their justice systems. The word justice has been brandished in this thread quite a few times without consideration for the cultural factors that define it.

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H

 

[John Watson]

The guys who won't pay parking tickets have diplomatic impunity

 

[Lew Crippen]

Even with murder there are considerable problems. At least two important issues exist:

One, the host country can claim that a diplomat murdered someone and retain them under their laws (in many countries, not excluding the United States—this might be with legal representation, without bail and for an extended period before being tried). So even if later proven innocent, such actions could be taken during the midst of delicate negotiations or at the outbreak of hostilities.

Two, even if everything were on the up-and-up, often host country, local laws are so very different than the ones that exist in other (even friendly countries) as to arouse extreme hostility from the government and populace of other countries.

For example, most European countries do not accept capital punishment as a recourse for murder. A trial in Texas or Singapore for a capital offense would provoke outrage in many of these countries. It would be over-the-top if the death penalty were invoked.

And justice moves at a very different pace in many countries. In Singapore, for example, there is no trial by jury, accused are tried very quickly and the appeal process is swift. This leads to (by some standards) immediate execution of sentences. About ten years ago a maid from the Philippines was executed for the murder of her employer. She was no doubt guilty, but the Philippine government was so incensed at how fast she was found guilty and how quickly she was executed that they reduced the number of domestic servants available from them to Singapore for some time. And this (no disrespect intended) was for a maid. Can you imagine if the same thing happened to an ambassador (or even the son of an ambassador)?

 

[Yee-Ming]

Well put Lew and Andrew.

It can be alarming: our Chief Justice has publicly stated that he wants our judiciary to be so efficient that a capital case can move from the initial charge to "disposal" -- his words, meaning execution of sentence -- in just two years.

We are currently trying to extradite a UK citizen charged with murder from Australia. The Aussies will not allow extradition to a country with the death penalty, so our government has undertaken not to impose it, even though our statutes provide no leeway (i.e. the only punishment for murder is death, there is no discretion), though I understand this will be done by way of the President granting clemency (presumably to life imprisonment) if and when there's a conviction.

And not too long ago, the Dutch got really pissed off at us for executing one of their citizens for drug trafficking. You can probably see the irony there.

 

[Cees Alons]

Exactly. He was hanged. Two days before the execution, the family got a formal letter saying they could claim the remnants from 10 o'clock on, that-and-that morning.
I will not mention the name of the person here, but it got a lot of attention in our country.

Of course the public outrage was (moderately) tempered by the sheer fact that someone who accepts a "job" like that, supposedly knows exactly what the possible penalty is, but in our view the sentence is still outrageous.


Cees

 

[andrew markworthy]

The same reaction in the UK as well. Whilst a drug dealer shot in a turf war would barely merit a passing mention, if it's institutionalised killing most europeans in particular get a bit tetchy about this sort of thing. I don't want to sidetrack this into a debate about capital punishment, so I will add to this that I think this is a cultural value rather than a moral absolute. However, it's another reason why diplomatic immunity may not be a bad thing.

 

[CharlesD]

Ah yes the charming message printed on arrival froms in Singapore: "the penalty for drug trafficing is death".

Makes me want to rush back and buy more stuff in the Lucky plaza