Robert Crawford

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Hard to resist.
I'm thinking of ordering it, but don't pick it up from my local BB until the 16th, that way I can see if any better pricing comes about on the 15th or 16th due to Amazon Prime and the Denon 3600 available to pre-order on the 15th.
 

JohnRice

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I'm thinking of ordering it, but don't pick it up from my local BB until the 16th, that way I can see if any better pricing comes about on the 15th or 16th due to Amazon Prime and the Denon 3600 available to pre-order on the 15th.
You can do that? Can you change your mind and cancel the order later, but before you pick it up?
 

Robert Crawford

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You can do that? Can you change your mind and cancel the order later, but before you pick it up?
I don't know, but I'm willing to ask what's the penalty? People return stuff all the time to BB, otherwise, they wouldn't have so many open-box items. I'm not returning it, but it's not open either so they don't have to discount it down.
 

JohnRice

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I'm saying their press release makes this look like a very vanilla yearly upgrade. Nothing in it screams out to me this is a big deal and the chatter at places like AVS haven't picked it up as a major improvement either.
Sam, bottom line, undeniable fact. This model went from 7 channel drive, 7 channel processing to 9 channel drive, 11 channel processing. It is positively unfathomable to me how that could ever be considered an insignificant upgrade, even if nothing else changed with the unit.

Go ahead arguing all you want, I'm done. I just stated the facts. I have no control over whether anyone else considers them to be a significant upgrade or not.
 

Robert Crawford

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Sam, bottom line, undeniable fact. This model went from 7 channel drive, 7 channel processing to 9 channel drive, 11 channel processing. It is positively unfathomable to me how that could ever be considered an insignificant upgrade, even if nothing else changed with the unit.

Go ahead arguing all you want, I'm done. I just stated the facts. I have no control over whether anyone else considers them to be a significant upgrade or not.
I would say that's a significant upgrade for that pricing.
 
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Sam Posten

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Go ahead arguing all you want, I'm done. I just stated the facts. I have no control over whether anyone else considers them to be a significant upgrade or not.
Sure. As I noted the people I know buying this model tier PERSONALLY are doing 5.1.2, and have the option for 2 more channels, which they won't use anytime soon. The heavier build, the better Auddessey, etc are more important to them than pure channels. YMMV.

Per Batpig, the undeniable authority on Denon models:
The 3500 vs 3600 is a very big upgrade in terms of channel count... the 3500 is 7ch only, whereas the 3600 has 9 amps and can run a full 7.1.4 setup with external amps.

Otherwise the changes are just the minor details (e.g. HDCP 2.3) noted at the beginning of this thread.
And the press release doesn't even call out the channels, so you specifically have to know that this is a change year over year.
 

JohnRice

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Sure. As I noted the people I know buying this model tier PERSONALLY are doing 5.1.2, and have the option for 2 more channels, which they won't use anytime soon. The heavier build, the better Auddessey, etc are more important to them than pure channels. YMMV.
No, they do not. At least get your facts straight. The 3500 is 7 channels... period.

In addition, the Audyssey appears to be the same (MultEQ XT32), and the 3600 weighs about 3 lbs more than the 3500.

...and what does the press release have to do with anything? It's poorly written. What does that matter?

Now I lied, but I really am going to (at least try to) move on now.
 
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Scott Merryfield

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I wonder if Denon is eliminating their 4x00 model line, since the only significant difference between that and the 3x00 models was the 9 channels versus 7 channels? With the 3600 now offering 9 channels of amplification, a 4600 would seem redundant.

BTW, I own the 2016 model X3300W and have been quite pleased with it. I use the receiver in a 7.1 channel setup -- ceiling speakers are not really an option in our living room, so the X4300H would have been overkill in my case. I have considered moving to a 5.1.2 setup by taking out the rear center speakers and adding two height speakers that would sit on top of my front towers and bounce off the ceiling, but it's never been a priority.
 

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Sam and John, please ease up, it's only receivers we're talking about.:)
Agreed. Sam and I tend to get heated, but it's usually about photography.

Or external amps.

Or movies.

OK, Sam and I argue a LOT. We always have.

I tend to take things personally when I should't. Anxiety tends to kick in at obnoxious times.
 
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JohnRice

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I wonder if Denon is eliminating their 4x00 model line, since the only significant difference between that and the 3x00 models was the 9 channels versus 7 channels? With the 3600 now offering 9 channels of amplification, a 4600 would seem redundant.
The 3600 actually seems like an overshoot for exactly that reason. Maybe they have some significant upgrades planned for the higher models.
 

Robert Crawford

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BB is selling the 6013 for 999.98! I'm thinking about it as it's been years since I last own a Marantz.
One more thing, this week Best Buy and other retailers reduced the 6013 pricing from $999.98 to $899.99 and I was able to get the difference in pricing credited to me. Not bad getting a receiver originally priced at $1499.99 for $899.99
 
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JohnRice

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One more thing, this week Best Buy and other retailers reduced the 6013 pricing from $999.98 to $899.99 and I was able to get the difference in pricing credited to me. Not bad getting a receiver originally priced at $1499.99 for $899.99
Good. I saw that price drop a day or two after you ordered it, but I didn't want to mention it, since I figured it was too late.

Do you have it yet?
 

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The 3600 actually seems like an overshoot for exactly that reason. Maybe they have some significant upgrades planned for the higher models.
They ought to have at least 9.2.4 processing in their $1,500 to $2,500 model range with DTS: X Pro included (so we can finally upmix beyond 7.1.4 with Neural: X - who the heck knows if Pro isn't anything more than 7.1.4 immersive as before with standard DTS: X, but with upmixing to expand the channel count rather than including true 3D objects). Then their flagship models should have 9.2.6 or greater.
 

Robert Crawford

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Good. I saw that price drop a day or two after you ordered it, but I didn't want to mention it, since I figured it was too late.

Do you have it yet?
Yeah, I saw that price drop too, but didn't get around to contacting BB until the other day.

Yeah, I have it, but I'm not as impressed with it as I thought I would be. I prefer the functionality and display of information of the Yamaha. However, once my new display is setup with it then I will make a final determination whether to keep it or not. After speaking with BB customer service, I know I have to July 27th to return it if I'm not happy with it. Right now, I doubt I return it because my concerns with it are small potatoes, especially, when factoring the price point I purchased it. I guess I just have to get used to it. The Bluetooth doesn't work as well as my Yamaha.
 

JohnRice

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They ought to have at least 9.2.4 processing in their $1,500 to $2,500 model range with DTS: X Pro included (so we can finally upmix beyond 7.1.4 with Neural: X - who the heck knows if Pro isn't anything more than 7.1.4 immersive as before with standard DTS: X, but with upmixing to expand the channel count rather than including true 3D objects). Then their flagship models should have 9.2.6 or greater.
I can definitely see that, maybe with a little higher threshold to 13 channel processing. The 1xxx series might just stay 5 channels to keep it cheap, and the 2xxx being 7, possibly with 9 channel processing. 9/11 for the 3xxx and 4xxx with the higher models going 9/13... or more.
 
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JohnRice

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Yeah, I have it, but I'm not as impressed with it as I thought I would be. I prefer the functionality and display of information of the Yamaha... The Bluetooth doesn't work as well as my Yamaha.
When I got my AV7703, I was torn regarding the display. It's too far away in my HT to read the little porthole info, so at first I tended to leave the door open so I could see the large display, which the 6013 doesn't have. Then I realized when I was curious, I could just check the on-screen display, which shows a lot more than the front display ever did, and it's nice and big. In the end, I finally realized I didn't need to look at the display so often, like I'd gotten in the habit of doing. So, it's actually a positive, because I'm less distracted. The 7012 that's in the living room has the big display as well, which I've never even felt the need to look at, because I've already broken the habit.

The funny thing is, now I like the look of the porthole display and the generally clean, non-flashy look of the unit. Now I find regular, button and input covered receivers to look rather tacky.

I haven't used bluetooth, and doubt I ever will. One thing about how Denon/Marantz does AirPlay is a little annoying, though, Airplay isn't a selectable input. It activated automatically when a signal is sent to it. I often use AirPlay to listen to music while I have sports on the TV. Sometimes I switch the audio to the TV to hear some commentary for a minute, then want to switch back to AirPlay. Well, there's no AirPlay input to select. AirPlay comes in through HEOS, and there is a HEOS input, but selecting it doesn't start playing the music again. I have to turn off the AirPlay feed to the receiver, then turn it back on, and then it starts playing again. They just over thought it. Engineers sometimes like to get too smart for their own good.
 
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Robert Crawford

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Another issue I have is losing the audio feed when I go from one input to another. Let's say I'm watching DirecTV and then switch over to AppleTV. The audio feed is cutoff and I have to turn off the receiver to get it back.
 

JohnRice

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Another issue I have is losing the audio feed when I go from one input to another. Let's say I'm watching DirecTV and then switch over to AppleTV. The audio feed is cutoff and I have to turn off the receiver to get it back.
That doesn't sound right. I've never had that happen, except occasionally when I play an MKV file that has a Atmos/DTS:X soundtrack. I have updated all my hdmi cables to certified Monoprice models.
 

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