Curtis Mathis TV, Will it do the squeeze? (1 Viewer)

[Sean Conklin]

Hey whats up?
I was at K-mart tonight and was looking at a Curtis Mathis 32" TV, and it has three viewing modes:
Normal
Zoom
Wide
I read the manual, but does not state whether it will squeeze 16:9 Anamorphic.
It only says that the Wide mode is for 16:9 movies,and thats it! Extremely vague manual!
Do any of you know if this mode will squeeze Anamorphic?
My thought is that it will because while I was messing with it, it squeezed the picture (obviously), so why wouldn't it squeeze Anamorphic? I think it will.
I mean I can go into my current TV's service mode and squeeze Anamorphic (Although I usually don't, it's a pain).
Or am I wrong and you need a TV with the specific capability to squeeze and properly add the lines to "Properly" view Anamorphic? I don't think so but I might be wrong.
I was wondering if anyone can confirm this for me.
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Sean
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said.......I drank what?"
[Edited last by Sean Conklin on October 31, 2001 at 01:54 AM]

 

[Sean Conklin]

Mods: I'm sorry I made you move my thread, Ill try to pay more attention.

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Sean
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said.......I drank what?"

 

[Rick Radford]

Sean, I don't know the answer to your question. What was the price on that TV?
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--RR

 

[Sean Conklin]

$399
It does have a nice picture and lots of inputs for the price.
If I can find a TV that will squeeze Anamorphic I might consider it, but I think I'm going to save up for a 16:9.
You know, why else would this TV have this feature unless it was for Anamorphic, I mean you don't want to squeeze 4:3 TV shows, and a DVD player already displays Widescreen.
I just thought somebody out there might know.
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Sean
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said.......I drank what?"

 

[Steve Schaffer]

Sean,
If you play an anomorphic dvd on a non-squeezed 4/3 set, with the player set to 16/9 mode, the picture will be stretched vertically, making everybody too tall and skinny.
If you mashed the button to put this Curtis Mathes into 16/9 mode while it was showing a regular 4/3 picture, and the picture got squeezed so everybody was short and fat, and black bars appeared at the top and bottom then it was indeed doing the squeeze trick!! If you were playing an anamorphic dvd, as described above, and mashed the button, then the tall skinny people would be normally proportioned--that is what the squeeze trick is.
It looks like you've found a $400 32" tv that does the anamorphic squeeze--did it have component inputs, by any chance?
Way back in the 60s and early 70s, Curtis Mathes was a premium American mfr. of TVs, as were RCA, Magnavox, Admiral, and Zenith, all of which got bought out for their names by foreign companies. It would be interesting to know who the actual manufacturer of this new set is.
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Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.
[Edited last by Steve Schaffer on October 31, 2001 at 08:40 PM]

 

[Sean Conklin]

Thanks for your reply Steve,
I thought this was the case, I just couldn't believe a $400 CM TV at KMart could do the squeeze trick. Your right because what else would this function be for?
No, unfortunately this TV does not have Component input, but does have everything else.
But from what I've heard, it is hard to tell the difference in picture quality between S-Video and component on 32" TV's and smaller, so a TV for $400 that does the squeeze may be worth considering!!
But I swore my next TV would be 16:9.
I would like to see this TV in action doing the squeeze on an Anamorphic DVD.
One more thing, the size of the squeeze on their cable looked to squeeze it at 2.35:1, do you think it would squeeze 1.85 correctly too? Do you think it would adjust itself for the right ratio, I ask because the only function was "WIDE", and did not have any adjustment or anything for adjusting this.
Or will the DVD player dictate the correct squeeze ratio?
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Sean
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said.......I drank what?"

 

[Leon Van Dongen]

Not sure if this helps or not...
I have a LG 51cm TV which has a "Wide" mode. However, it only works on TV channels, not on any AV inputs. All it does it make the TV 4:3 picture look like a widescreen dvd, ie letterbox. I initially thought it might be the squeeze trick, but it doesn't work on DVD

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[Sean Conklin]

All it does it make the TV 4:3 picture look like a widescreen dvd, ie letterbox.

Now there's a twist, Widescreen P&S
Yes Leon that info may be helpful as I was not able to try any of the inputs(K-Mart, nuff said).
They do have power plugs, maybe I can go in there and take an s-video cable and a DVD and try it, the old guy that works the electronics there is really cool, I'm sure he wouldn't mind.
What do you think Steve?
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Sean
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said.......I drank what?"

 

[Steve Schaffer]

Sean,
If the guy that runs the electronics dept. will let you hook up a dvd player, that would be great for telling what this set will do.
The squeeze, or raster compression for 1:85 and 2:35 are the same--no need to adapt for one or the other.
If you had a dvd player hooked up to a widescreen set, with the player set to 16/9 output, a 1:85 movie would fill the screen, while a 2:35 still has black bars, though the bars aren't as thick as they are on a 4/3 set.
On a set that does the squeeze, all the scanlines would be used on a 1:85 movie, while with a 2:35 movie, some scanlines would be used for the area above and below the image that doesn't fill the 1:85 scanned area--You'd have narrow scanned black bars within somewhat wider unscanned black bars--hope that makes sense, it's kinda hard to explain clearly.
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Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.

 

[Sean Conklin]

Thank you Steve!
I will go to K-mart with an s-vid cable and a dvd and check it out! Thanks
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Sean
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said.......I drank what?"

 

[Rick Radford]

On a set that does the squeeze, all the scanlines would be used on a 1:85 movie, while with a 2:35 movie, some scanlines would be used for the area above and below the image that doesn't fill the 1:85 scanned area

Steve, this is still an area where I have some confusion. I have had both a 32" analog and a 32" digital set running side-by-side. The analog set fed by Svideo and the digital set by component cables with PScan enabled on the player.
If you put in a 2.35:1 DVD, both sets will show the same picture dimensions (letterbox size).
Other than the better PQ of the digital set, how would you know it was doing the raster squeeze? The better PQ of the digital set could be due to the line doubler and/or the progressive scan input, right? (I presume the Ldoubler turns off if it detects 480p input).
I think a 32" set is not the best example of using the squeeze (at least, for demo purposes). OTOH, I can watch most DVDs without the same complaints of big screen owners (EE, poor quality transfer, etc.)

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--RR

 

[NickSo]

Lol, Widescreen Pan and Scan... the next best thing for the J6P... this'll get the OAR avengers even more frustrated...
Wait, if its a 2.35:1 wide, and its pan and scanned, but then it adds the widescreen mode so the black bars are as big as a 2.35:1 DVD is, wouldnt it still be in Original Aspect Ratio? The aspect ratio is the same... right?? nevermind... its friday afternoon...

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[Steve Schaffer]

The anamorphic squeeze and progressive scan are two separate animals.
A 32" 4/3 set without the squeeze capability showing a 2:35 anamorphic movie from a dvd player set to 4/3 output will have the exact sames size and proportion picture as a 32" 4/3 squeeze-capable set in 16/9 mode showing an anamorphic dvd from a player set to 16/9 output. This has nothing to do with progressive scan. The squeezed set will show a better image because it is using more scanlines to present the image. The unsqueezed set is showing an image with 1/4th of the scanlines thrown away by the player's downconversion when the player is set for 4/3 output.
The set that will do the squeeze is using more scanlines to show the picture, and all other things being equal will have a higher resolution picture.
There are a number of 4/3 non-digital sets, from Sony, Sharp, and JVC that will do the squeeze.
There are also a number of 4/3 digital sets that do not do a true raster squeeze-last year's Hitachi rptvs are an example.
Nick: I feel your pain.
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Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.

 

[Rick Radford]

The anamorphic squeeze and progressive scan are two separate animals.

I understand. What I was trying to say is I think the better PQ could be attributed to other factors than the squeeze.
Would you notice the difference if you forgot and left the DVD player in a 4:3 mode rather than 16:9 mode for an anamorphic DVD on a DV set.. or just on a big screen TV?
I guess what I wonder is if the squeeze actually does anything on a DV set.. considering pixel size, beam size, etc. vs an RPTV. (especially smaller sets like the 32" DV HDTVs)
I don't know much about the mechanics of how these work, but wonder if DV sets have problems with overlapping scan lines.
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--RR

 

[Steve Schaffer]

Rick,
It's kind of hard to determine how much of an increase in picture quality would be attributable to the squeeze and how much to line doubling.
I had a 35" Sony XBR set, non-HD ready that I squeezed via the service menu using the 16/9 mode on the dvd player. The picture for anamorphic dvd was noticeably better than with the set unsqueezed and the player in 4/3 mode, but it took about 10 minutes of playing with various service menu items to achieve the squeeze and I rarely bothered to do it. If the squeeze had been automatic or a single user-menu toggle, I'd have used it all the time.
A lot depends on how well the dvd player performs anamorphic downconversion when set to 4/3 output. A lot of players displayed a lot of jaggies and shimmering when downconverting, notably most Toshibas, while Sonys tended to soften the picture a lot. These defects would still be noticeable on a progressive scan picture.
Most people with sets that are not progressive scan capable, but do perform the squeeze, note a worthwile improvement in picture quality when using the squeeze vs letting the player do downconversion. Not only does the squeeze allow the use of 480 lines to produce the picture, vs 360, but the artifacts or softness induced by the downconversion process in the player would not be present.
If one has a player with good downconversion connected to a 27 or even 32 inch tv, the squeeze is not going to be as much as an improvement as it would be if you had an older Toshiba player and a larger screen set.
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Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.

 

[Rick Radford]

Steve,
I guess the way for me to find out will be to put an anamorphic DVD in my RP91 and switch back and forth between 4:3 and 16:9 modes in the player.
I still get confused with all the details sometimes. I just learned that I should not engage the TV's 3:2 pulldown mode when the player is in progressive scan mode.
I guess the operational details remain a bit fuzzy to me at this point... knowing what mode to be in, when to use 3:2 pulldown, knowing when a signal is being upconverted or downconverted, etc. I think I understand much of the terminology.. but not necessarily the practical applications.
Thanks for your info.

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--RR

 

[Lee-c]

I thought that DVD players automatically played a anamorphic DVD in 16x9 and it was up to
the t.v. whether it can play it at true 16x9, letterbox or 16x9 squeeze trick.
We have a Panasonic A120 DVD player and I don't see any controls that say "16x9 mode".
How do I know if our DVD player is playing an anamorphic DVD movie in "enhanced" 16x9 mode?
We have a 36 inch Wega (FV27) that has "automatic 16x9 enhanced mode" as a feature.
I assume that means that any anamorphic DVD movie will be played with the 16x9 squeeze trick
without any need to set anything on the t.v. manually. Is there a way to tell if the Wega is
in fact using the squeeze trick on a particular DVD movie and not just playing it in standard
letterbox format?
I appreciate any help you fine fellows can provide on this question.

 

[Lee-c]

Had some trouble finding the manual, but apparently there is a menu where you can set the dvd
player to match your t.v.'s aspect ratio. I have now chosen 16:9 for use with my Wega.
I assume the only difference between choosing 4:3 and 16:9 when playing anamorphic DVD's
is that if you choose 16:9 the player will pass on the enhanced 16x9 signal to the Wega.
Which allow the Wega to display the image using the squeeze trick and thus get a higher
picture quality, but the movie will be displayed in it's entirety either way. If the DVD player
is set to 4:3, then the movie will be letterboxed normally, as it would be on any 4:3 t.v.
But with the player set to 16:9, it will allow the Wega to use all of it's resolution in the
picture itself and just project the black bars across the top and bottom, instead of wasting
some of the resolution on the black bars.
Do I have that right? Or am I getting mixed up somewhere? The nuances of all this 16x9
stuff is still pretty new to me.
I look forward to any comments. Thanks.

 

[Rick Radford]

Lee,
As I understand it, what you said is correct. But as to whether or not there's any PQ improvement between LB and the squeezed image on 32"-36" sets is yet to be determined.
I've read some threads that indicate some of the 4:3 RPTVs that do the squeeze had trouble with overlapping scan lines. I don't know if the technology differences between DV and RPTV sets are such that we share the same concerns.
I wonder if the way a picture is displayed on a DV set creates limitations in benefits of using the squeeze? Or if 32" is just too small to benefit?
I ran an analog 32" set alongside the digital 32" set for a week for comparison. Analog cable was sharper on the digital set. Regular DVDs were much closer in PQ. But what sold me on the digital set was when we watched a 2.35:1 anamorphic DVD (U-571). The PQ was incredibly different.
At the time I thought it was due to the squeeze, but I'm pretty sure I had the player in a 4:3 mode.. which I now know would have precluded the squeeze. [shrug]
Leaving the player in 16:9 mode enables the squeeze, but the down side is that I never know what AR to select until I have an image on the screen that is obviously distorted one way or the other. Fortunately, my remote allows me to change the AR with one button.
When I use one of the 4:3 modes on the player, I don't recall ever having to contend with choosing the right AR. No big deal.. but a minor inconvenience.
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--RR

 

[Lee-c]

Rick, thanks for the response.
On the FV Wega's, 16x9 enhanced mode is automatic, so I shouldn't have to do anything
to make it go into the right mode if an anamorphic DVD is playing. So I can just leave
the DVD player in 16x9 mode.
The only thing I can think of that I might have to change is the player setting to 4:3, if the
DVD is in pan-n-scan or regular letterbox. I'm not sure if the image would display properly
or not if I left the player in 16x9 mode and the movie was non-anamorphic.
Thoughts?