Check out what I just won on ebay.. DIY Sub Here I come!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Brett DiMichele, Nov 8, 2002.

  1. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Brett,

    You really need to find out from the manufacturer if there is any kind of EQ (boost) built into the amp and at what frequency. If you can't find out that info. then there's no way to tell exactly what results you'll have. It could work fine or you could end up with a very boomy sub. But if you got it fairly cheap it can still be fun to play with.
     
  2. Rich Kraus

    Rich Kraus Stunt Coordinator

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    240v? how you going to power this thing? (or do you live "over there")
     
  3. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Rich,

    Also, Brett said "Sunfire Power" but the amp is listed as an AR (Acoustic Research) product.
     
  4. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Hey Guys,

    This is Bob Carvers Sunfire Sub amp with Tracking Down Conversion (TDC)

    AR uses Bob Carver Sunfire Amps in all of thier powered
    Hi-Res Towers and thier Hi-Res Sub. This particular amp
    comes out of the ARS-500 which is a 15" Slot Loaded Down
    Firing Ported Sub with 500 Watts RMS from the Sunfire Amp.

    The ARS500 plays down to 18Hz

    This amp has adjustable crossover points and a seperate
    front mounted control pannel. Here are the specs of the
    ARS-500 Sub.

    The 240Volt listing is not correct, this is a 110volt amp
    he just listed it that way because it takes an IEC Plug
    which he equates to being 240v, Even if it was 220 I have
    a 220V Dedicated outlet right beside my A/V Rack. I cleared
    it up with him before bidding that this is infact 110V.


    ------------------------------------------------------------
    ARS500
    Down Firing, Trajectory Port Coupled
    Bob Carver/Sunfire® Powered Subwoofer

    SIMPLY STATED, THE HI-RES SERIES LOUDSPEAKERS ARE THE ULTIMATE IN SOUND REPRODUCTION, COMPETING WITH SPEAKERS TWICE THEIR PRICE

    The new Hi-RES powered subwoofer are a living testimony to the diligent pursuit of life-like low frequency reproduction in the home environment. These high powered units (15" woofer with a 500 watt RMS amplifier in the S500 and a 12" woofer with a 300 watt RMS amplifier in the S300) are capable of thunderous performance in any type of system.

    The S500 and S300 feature down-firing subwoofers configured in a low turbulence, trajectory port tuned cabinet. This enables the subwoofer to perform at extremely high levels of output with very low distortion. Each subwoofer features a front panel Audio/Video contour switch with volume level control. These controls maximize the performance of the subwoofer in any sustem configuration.













    Dimensions (HxWxD): 18 1/4" x 17 1/4" x 24"
    Driver complement: High power handling 15"
    Frequency response: 18Hz-120Hz ±2.5dB
    Crossover frequency: 40Hz~120Hz Continuously Variable
    Amplifier power: 500 Watts RMS
    Pre-amplifier: Low-Level IN, LFE IN/OUT, High-Level IN/OUT, Phase and Gain
    Finish: Black ash

    ------------------------------------------------------------
     
  5. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Hey Guys I want your opinion on this.. No matter what it may
    be...
    How do you think this driver would work in a 3.0 Cu Ft
    Sealed Enclosure with 500Watts RMS ?
    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=299-650
    I know there are so many drivers available, Tumult's, Shiva's
    Tempests, Cupric's etc..
    This looks like a great sub for a very good price and I am
    trying to keep the price of this sub down and I am not looking
    to best an SVS sub or anything like that...
    Let me know what ya think.. I am flexible on everything I
    could go Sealed 12", Ported 12", Sealed 15", Ported 15"
    12 or 15" with a PR, whatever... I just don't want to spend
    a fortune.
    *Edit* I just realized this is a 10" not a 12".... Hmmm
    How about 2 of these? heh.
     
  6. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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    Brett,

    The MB Quart in a 3cubic foot sealed cabinet? Skip it!

    You'd really be better off getting a Dayton DVC 12" for $6 more. The DVC has higher displacement, lower Fs, and in a 3cubic foot reflex enclosure tuned to around 22-25hz you will compete with an SVS offering. The DVC 12 really is a great driver especially for the cost.
     
  7. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Dan,

    That MB-Quart is a 10" thought, Wouldn't it be a little
    "Faster" ? Ahh probably not.. The PE Titanic does have
    double the motor structure by the looks of things..

    I dunno I am just kicking everything around.. I know this
    is gonna sound weird but I like asthetics too, Two of those
    MB-Q's would look sharp in a push-pull sealed cab..
     
  8. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Brett,

    Forget everything you've read about smaller drivers being "faster". It all comes down the the strength of the motor structure. Here's an analogy for you. Is a Civic "faster" than your Vette because it's smaller? Hell no! Your Vette's engine is designed to work optimally with the size/weight of the rest of the car. Same thing with subwoofers. Put a tiny magnet on a large 15" driver and it can sound sloppy. But design it accordingly and it can sound just as "fast" as a smaller driver.

    And you still need to find out more info. on the amp from AR.
     
  9. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    the guy has another one for sale
     
  10. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Brian,

    I know a properly designed sub will be fast even if it's
    a 15" that's why I said the PE has double the motor structure
    and It is most likely even faster than the MB-Q 10"

    I emailed AR to find out if the amp has a rumble filter,
    bass boost and to find out what the fixed X-Over slope is.
    Hopefully they can help me with that info. To my knowledge
    it doesn't have bass boost, it has a fixed X-Over of 100Hz
    (I think) I will see what they have to say. I also asked
    what the stability was, 2 Ohm Stable would be nice, but I
    doubt many home amps will be as stable as a similar car amp.

    So what woofage do you guys recommend?
    Shiva
    Tempest
    Tumult
    SVS Driver
    Car Audio Sub
    ?????
    ?????

    I would like one of SVS's new drivers, do they sell the raw
    drivers?
     
  11. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
    Moderator

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    No, SVS doesn't sell raw drivers, but when they offer upgrades to existing subwoofer customers, those customers have the option of selling their old drivers to others, or SVS offers a buy-back price on their drivers (for a certain time limit) to those who upgrade their driver in their SVS sub.
     
  12. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    With that kind of power I'd be looking at the Stryke AV series drivers.
     
  13. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Well as some of you know I bought the MB-Q PDW254 10" DVC
    and many think I could have gotten a much better sub from
    Dayton or elsewhere. And I am not arguing with those people
    either. I have another use for this 10" if I can't make it
    work in the enclosure ideas I have in my head.
    The friendly UPS Man showed up today with plenty-O-boxes for
    me. Inside one box was my P.E order of Black Ash Vinyl Laminate,
    Feet Spikes, 2.5" Acoustic Tiles and the MB-Q Driver.
    In the other box was the ARS500 Amp.
    The Driver is sweet... And honestly I don't know where MB's
    X-Max results are comming from because it sure looks like
    more than 9.5mm to me...But I am not arguing, they made the
    dang thing I would hope they would know [​IMG]
    The amp is nothing short of awe inspiring.. I took the back
    off to see how Carver builds his amps and I am floored!
    All Foil/Polly Capacitors, Huge Torodial Transformer, Massive
    Caps on the Line Voltage input stage just through and through
    well built.
    I haven't heard back from AR yet but I have came to some
    conclusions on my own. First off this *IS* a European version
    because right smack under the IEC Power Cord Receptacle it
    says 230-240V~50Hz ONLY! Thankfully after I spoke with my
    E.E buddy we concluded that this is a flexible voltage unit
    because the IEC Receptacle goes directly into an EMI unit
    that supports up to 250V @ 10Amp @ 50/60Hz so this will indeed
    work on a dedicated 220V line! But yes you read that right,
    this HAS to be run on a 220V line.. According to ESS Surplus
    who bought a bunch of these amps from AR they didn't make
    any that were 110v but I don't think that's true because
    most people do not have 220V lines in thier living room's [​IMG]
    As for Bass Boost, I do not believe there is any on this
    unit. What leads me to belive that? They have passthru's to
    power other passive external subs (EG: Not thier own sub)
    and I can't imagine them using a Bass boost on something
    they knew could be used for an external sub from another
    company.
    The crossover is adjustable from 40Hz to 100hz and variable
    between every point (40/80/100)
    As for my enclosure it looks like I am going to go with a
    52.0 Liter with a QTC of 0.7 that seems to work out the best.
    And I will cross this over at 40Hz and run my AR9's as large
    they easily extend down to 32Hz to cover the difference.
     
  14. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Brett,

    Pass through's has nothing to do with whether or not there's any boost. I've seen several sub amps with built in boost and pass throughs.
     
  15. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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  16. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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  17. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Welp,
    Today was the day to see if in fact this amp would work or
    not. I dropped by Lowes and picked up a 20Amp rated 220V
    Plug and I whacked the end off of a 4' 20Amp rated IEC
    cable and put the new end on. Carried the amp and the sub
    out to the living room and laid it on the floor. Plugged in
    the amp and nothing! Ahhhhh Panic! Ohh no, Wait.. I have the
    220 line shut off.. Run downstairs kick the double breakers
    on, run back up starts to see an ominous green light staring
    at me.. Yeahhhh!! Yipeee!! [​IMG]
    Then I had to figgure out which way the wiring harness went
    onto the remote mount gain and phase pannel.. I must have got
    lucky because it can go either way and I got it right the
    first time. Wow neat blue LED in that pannel...
    So I wired the VC's of the sub together (2Ohm) and hooked
    it up to the amp and hooked up the LFE cabled and woolah the
    woofer sprang to life.
    Everything seems to be working okie day and now saturday and
    sunday will be spent building a nice little enclosure so that
    I can blow my woofer to kingdom come!
    Anyone want pieces of woven carbon fiber woofer cone when
    it pops? [​IMG]
    Hey Brian you said that I was going to run into problems in
    the 70Hz range if I recall correctly. I am crossing this
    thing over at 40Hz (don't forget i have mains that play down
    to 32Hz @100DB and they actually go lower than that.) I
    know this introduces a whole other set of issues like cancelation
    unless I get everything set up just right. But if I stick
    with a 40Hz and lower I think I may be okay. I didn't recall
    you saying that in your mockups I over extended the X-Max in
    the sealed enclosure untill70Hz and in a ported config the
    sub became unloaded at 20hz.
    Whatcha think? Give it to me straight you know I can take it!
    And I want to thank you Brian and Dan also Honestly I know
    I could have went a better approach that then way I did go
    and I didn't "ignore" anything you said I honestly appreciate
    both of your sincerety and eagerness to help. Like I said
    before that's what makes this a great place. None of your
    adive fell on deaf ears.
    Thanks! [​IMG]
     
  18. Michael R Price

    Michael R Price Screenwriter

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    Brett, I think what they meant is that your driver is displacement limited with that much power - in other words if you push the amp, the driver will go nonlinear (distort) easily and probably bottom out. If you plan on playing it loud, I think you'll be better off buying a better driver, like a Stryke AV15. And I have a feeling you're going to want it loud.
     
  19. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Mike,

    Depends on what loud is.. I will be happy with 90-100DB
    or anywhere inbetween that range. My room isn't all that
    large and my mains are woefully underpowered on the sub
    section and they still make loads of low end in my room.

    The X-Max of this driver isn't that large (9.5mm) and Brian
    said in either ported or sealed @ roughly 70Hz I will in fact
    push the driver past it's X-Max. I think I am safe in the
    50-52 Liter Sealed Range as long as I keep it crossed lower
    than 70Hz. And that's not really a problem in my setup.

    I do plan on going to a bigger better driver later on when
    I have $250-$300 to dedicate to a very good driver. But I
    still have to make it work in a smaller enclosure. The more
    I thought about it (WAF is not an issue I don't have a W..)
    I still don't want a water heater sized object in my room I
    just don't have the room for it! And I don't particularly
    want a massive wood box in the room either.

    Wonder if I can duplicate something along the lines of a
    Carver True Sub, Something relatively small in a sealed
    enclosure with lots of wattage. Choosing a driver will be
    critical and it won't be cheap but if I can find something
    that can acheive what I want, in a small sealed enclosure
    with enough watts (500 watts probably won't even cut it).
     

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