Buying an OLED online. BUYER BEWARE!! (2 Viewers)

[JohnRice]

It seems like this is information that should be known to a seller in the business for more than 20 years.

There's a bit of a scam element on the part of the carrier as well. They certainly make it seem like it's insurance, and it's not like they refund the premium paid when they decide they'll only cover $53.70.

 

[Timothy E]

There's a bit of a scam element on the part of the carrier as well. They certainly make it seem like it's insurance, and it's not like they refund the premium paid when they decide they'll only cover $53.70.

I understand from the video that VERN could have 1) specified a higher declared value with FedEx and paid the additional premium, or 2) purchased insurance through a third party. VERN did neither, apparently.

When I reminded VERN that he promised to insure the TV for the full value, his first response was " although I believe what you are saying about paying with your personal check and I would cover the insurance I honestly do not remember that or see anything like that in our communications."

If I am inclined to give VERN the benefit of the doubt, it is possible that he forgot to purchase insurance or specify a higher declared value with FedEx, and pay the additional fee for the higher declared value.

Whether I give VERN the benefit of the doubt or not, however, it is indisputable that a condition of the contract was for VERN to insure the shipment for the full value, as he promised in his own words: Yes, we insure the delivery for the full value. (2/8/2021)

 

[JohnRice]

A significant detail is being overlooked. A value of $1 Million could have been declared and paid for. That doesn't mean FedEx would pay $1 Million if the shipment was lost. I have no idea what value the shipper declared, but the discrepancy appears to be in the difference between a $25 per lb. limit for new goods and the $0.50 per lb. limit for used goods. That info comes entirely from what you have posted. I don't know if those are the actual limits. I am a commercial shipper myself, but I don't deal with used goods and while I do ship some goods with values significantly above the $25/lb. limit, I've never had a claim where that applied. I've just been following the thread and am pointing out details I saw in it.

Still, a lot was wrong here.

 

[Citizen87645]

I'm sorry you've had to go through this, Tim.

 

[Timothy E]

PART 6 - Following from posts # 1, 22, 34, 37 & 38

VERN: Hi Tim, [XXXX] told me about your possibly opening a thread [on the Home Theater Forum website] with the letter you wrote to me last week.

I was hoping you would love the truly stunning and exceptional sample of LG’s 77G6 Signature Series 4K HDR OLED TV we sold you and that the minor damage that does not effect the TV operation and can’t be seen as a non issue when you consider all of the facts.

I am sorry to say this, but I am truly sorry I worked so hard to get this beautiful and very rare high demand TV to you above all other even higher offers that were much closer to our store. I did this because you were the first to ask me for the TV and I felt obligated to honor our deal regardless of how many times I had to pay a higher cost to our client.

Not sure what you are looking for, but if a $100 works for you I’ll mail you a check.

Thank you!

[-VERN] (07/18/2022)

TIM: [Hey VERN] Your word is your bond. Your response suggests that you cannot be trusted at your word. These are your words:

"Yes, we insure the delivery for the full value. Sorry to ask, but if you want to use a credit card please add 2.5% to cover part of our credit card bank processing fees or your personal check for $4,200." (February 8, 2021)

You wrote this in direct response to this message from me: "I do not mind sending a check. The only drawback might be that I do not have insurance that my credit card provides in the event that damage occurs in shipping through no fault of yours. Do you routinely insure your shipments? Please let me know." (February 8, 2021)

Based on this, I do not find you trustworthy when you fail to buy insurance, you pretend that you have no idea about insurance, and you write: "I do not feel responsible to pay..." (July 22, 2022) And all of this is after you abandoned me to deal with the insurance myself, while you knew, or should have known, that there was no insurance during all of the months that I was jumping through hoops to make an insurance claim with FedEx Freight.

You are in business, so you know, or ought to know, that you are liable for damage when you promise to insure for the full value, fail to do so, and damage occurs as a result.

I had believed that, if you were honorable and kept your word, I would refrain from 1) posting articles and reviews on the internet about the truth of my transaction with you and [your business], 2) making complaints to the Better Business Bureau, and 3) filing suit for my damages plus costs of suit. Instead, I get a denial of any responsibility by you and an offer of $100(!)

Kindly brace yourself for all of the above things to happen. I propose that you take back your bashed up TV with the bent screen and give me a full refund of $4,200. The TV is not even worth $1,000 in its condition, being a bashed up flagship TV from 2016 in a 2022 world. In the alternative, I will accept the difference between what I paid ($4,200) and the value I received ($1,000).

I fully expect that you will decline my offers, but I can still do a great service to a lot of other customers who may be harmed by your sharp practices in the future by publicizing the truth of my experience with [you] and [your business].
Thank you. (07/21/2022)

VERN: Hi Tim, Unquestionably you purchased LG’s 77” G6 Signature Series 4K HDR 3D TV far less than its actual value. Just for example here’s the step-down E6 series in the smaller 65” screen size that has burn-in on sale for $4,299.

Here’s another used 65E6 for $5,299:

The above two examples are not worth even 1/4 of the 77” G6 you have. LG’s 77” G6 is a serious and very well respected collectors TV and it’s the most valuable and best ever made 3D TV. You can not honestly be comparing it in anyway to any TV that does not support 3D it’s just not a fair comparison.

We do insure all of our shipments and it’s true that I did not know used TVs do not get the same insurance coverage. We paid the rate and class for the full insurance and when you told Fed Ex it was a used TV they adjusted the records to reduce the insurance coverage.

I am truly sorry your 77G6 was damaged in-transit and I also sorry to say that I am shocked and dismayed by your continual disparaging remarks about me personally and the threat you will be posting your versions of this transaction and your escalating this 1 year after receiving the TV is also surprising. Your have been using the TV for 1 year and to think you can return it or get a very large refund is not reasonable. I want you to know I take your new threats very seriously and if you take any of the actions you threatened I will immediacy react with appropriate action and consider a counter suite for making false claims and damaging my excellent personal reputation and my company.

Please forgive my candid remark here, but you now saying your 77G6 is only worth $1,000 is so incorrect and honestly insulting and only proves that you do not understand or appreciate what you have.

I worked so very hard and with the highest degree of integrity to get you this crazy high valued collectors 77” 3D OLED TV and I went to extremes to professionally pack the TV for safe travel to your home. and paid a huge freight bill to Fed Ex that included a very nice damage and loss insurance coverage with Fed Ex Priority delivery class 175 and this was regardless of the actual negative profit we have on this transaction that you still don’t appreciate the beautiful 77G6 TV you received and the very very low price you paid.

If you posting any of this I will defend our position and tell all of your left out facts around this transaction.

In an effort to settle this I’m now making my final offer of $200. I suggest we stay friends and please reach out to me anytime you have any technical audio or video questions and for your next interest in any a/v equipment and I’ll gladly pass along a very deep discount.

Sincerely,

VERN (07/23/2022)

TO BE CONTINUED

 

[Robert Crawford]

Let us please stop trying to guess the retailer in this thread. Tim has chosen not to name them and speculation will not help either side here. My guess is that further speculation will be removed so proceed with caution.

This warning from Sam bears repeating!

 

[Timothy E]

The story is not over. Stay tuned for the next chapter coming soon!

 

[Sam Posten]

Posts speculating on the retailer have been removed. I’m serious

 

[Timothy E]

PART 7 - Following from posts # 1, 22, 34, 37, 38 & 45

A number of members have helpfully recommended that I open a complaint with the Better Business Bureau against VERN and his company. This is what I wrote in my complaint:

I received a damaged OLED TV from [VERN). [VERN] promised me that the TV would be insured for its full value. These are his actual words: "Yes, we insure the delivery for the full value. " After the TV set arrived with a bent screen and a cracked frame with the inner components visible through the crack at the bottom, I contacted [VERN] to start an insurance claim. [VERN] was unresponsive to my request to make an insurance claim, so the burden fell on me to pursue the claim with the shipping company. After months of jumping through hoops with the freight carrier, I learned to my dismay that [VERN] had failed to insure the TV as promised. I contacted [VERN] and he denied initially that he promised to insure the shipment for its full value. (9/02/2022)

(What follows is the response that I received from the Better Business Bureau. )

Dear Tim:

This is in reference to your complaint against [VERN] Your complaint was assigned ID #XXXXXXXX.

Your complaint has been sent to the business for their response. Once they have responded to the BBB, we will contact you again.

In the meantime, if you have further communication directly with the business that results in a resolution, please send us a message through this link or via email to complaints@______.bbb.org to let us know. No other action is needed at this time, unless your complaint has been resolved. Please be sure to include ID #XXXXXXXX in all correspondence and voicemail messages.

Please do not include social security numbers, birth dates, or other such personally identifiable information. Do not send copies of driver’s licenses, passports, tax forms, birth certificates or any other documents that might contain such personally identifiable information. Send only copies of documents; do not send any original documents. We cannot return materials sent to us, and we securely destroy all documents after 60 days.

Your statement of your complaint [and your final response to any replies from the business] may be made public in the BBB Business Profile for this business on _______..bbb.org. Please be careful to make statements that are correct and not likely to create liability for you when they are published.
Sincerely,

XXX@_____.bbb.org (9/02/2022)

(VERN then made a response to the Better Business Bureau, which was also sent to me. This is what VERN wrote. )

VERN: We're surprised to read your complaint with the BBB. Your TV was fully insured, but when you filed your claim with FedEx and told them you purchased a used TV, they lowered the insurance value to pay out far less than the actual insurance we paid to FedEx.

A few weeks after you received the TV you reported the damage and you told me it was a minor dent in the backside of the TV and was not viewable from the front of the TV and that the TV worked perfectly. The TV operates normally.

I am sorry your TV was slightly damaged on the backside, but you have the TV since July 2021, which is over a full year ago and are asking for a refund and I am sorry to say we cannot issue a refund. (9/02/2022)

(The Better Business Bureau forwarded this response to me, and asked me to confirm whether this response resolves my complaint or fails to resolve my complaint. This is what I wrote. )

TIM: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# XXXXXXXX, and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:
business is not stating the facts accurately. The business should not be surprised by my complaint since I have contacted the business in writing for many months without any meaningful response. Although business promised that the shipment would be insured for the full value, it failed to obtain insurance for more than $57.30. In order to collect more from the shipping insurance, I would have been forced to file a false insurance claim to allege that it was a new TV rather than a used TV.

This is what FedEx Freight wrote to me: FedEx Freight does not offer insurance. Unfortunately, since the TV was used and not new, carrier liability is limited to $.50 per pound. Your shipper may have been unaware of this when you spoke with them. (01/24/2022) How can Value Electronics claim that this was fully insured?

The damage to the TV reported immediately after receipt. How can you call this minor damage? The hinged frame being bent on the left side as one looks at the back of the TV. The metal hinge is bent, and would not be visible except that the panel on the back of the TV is now ajar. I was able to straighten the frame somewhat by moving the hinge in the direction it would go if mounted on a table. I did not want to bend it back too far at risk of damaging the components.

There are 2 indentations on the front of the frame where it is visible under the screen. As to the back, the damage at the hinge nearly made it impossible to install the wall mount on the left side because the screw hole in the panel is no longer flush with the threads of the hole. The bent hinge and panel ajar on the rear means that there is an opening remaining at the bottom on the left side, leaving some inner components visible if looking straight up at the set from beneath it. I have reported to the business that this opening between the screen and the components has continued to separate, to the point that the OLED screen may break off entirely in the near future from the electronic components.
I have since learned that the internal components were damaged, making it impossible to stream TV content wirelessly without the screen freezing up every few minutes. This has also been reported to the business with no response, other than to have the business claim falsely in its response that: "the TV operates normally."

After I asked [VERN] for help in filing an insurance claim, [VERN] was unresponsive and left me to waste nearly 5 months in filing an insurance claim, when [VERN] knew or should have known that he had not insured the shipment for the full value, as promised. After I learned that the shipment was not properly insured, I asked [VERN] and [his business] to make it right, and my requests were ignored again for many months, all for [VERN] to say it has been nearly a year(a year of my time being wasted pursuing a non-existence insurance claim and waiting fruitlessly for a response from [VERN]}. (9/06/2022)

(VERN responded to the BBB as follows: )

VERN: It was mid July 2021 when you received the TV.

You did report the in-transit damage to us a few weeks after you received the TV and I quote what you said "minor damage that does not effect (sic) the TV."

Not until mid January, 5 months after your received and were using the TV did you ask us for a copy of your receipt so you could file a freight damage claim with the carrier FedEx LTL.

The TV was sold as a 8 year old used TV and there is no guarantee on used TVs. You paid far less than the true value of the TV and it was sold as used in very good condition, but as is. **

It feels unreasonable to bring up your request for a full refund 1 year and 2 months after you received and confirmed how much you are enjoying the TV and now filing a complaint on the public user forum and now with the BBB.

Truth is you purchased a 8 year old rare 3D TV and you paid far less than its actual value. (9/06/2022)

(** The TV was not sold as a 8 year old used TV in very good condition, but as is. VERN sold the TV as a 2016 model in perfect condition. See post #2 in this thread.)

(This is the response that I sent to BBB: )

TIM: [VERN] and [his business] advertised the TV in their own words as being a “very rare flagship Signature Series 77" 3D capable TV is in perfect condition and is available for sale.” After the TV arrived bashed up with a bent screen and a widening gap separating the screen from the internal components, their response now to the BBB is that the TV was: “sold as sued in very good condition, but as is.” “Perfect” condition and “very good” condition are 2 very different things to a buyer.

There is so much nonsense in the seller’s most recent response that most of it does not even merit a response: The ungrammatical quote about the TV, attributed to me in his response, was never said by me, in writing or otherwise. “The TV was sold as a 8 year old used TV” according to the most recent response by [VERN] and [his business]. They cannot provide any documents to prove this either because it is not true.

The real issue is that [VERN] promised that the TV would be insured for its full value in shipping. His exact words, in writing, were: “Yes, we insure the delivery for the full value.”

[VERN] is still claiming disingenuously in its BBB response that the shipment was insured for its full value, even though FedEx Freight wrote to me as follows: “FedEx Freight does not offer insurance. Unfortunately, since the TV was used and not new, carrier liability is limited to $ .50 per pound. Your shipper may have been unaware of this when you spoke with them.” I have attached the correspondence from FedEx to this response so that BBB can see who is telling the truth here.

FedEx Freight claims that the limit of liability is $57.30. This complaint is brought precisely because [VERN]failed to insure the TV for its full value as promised. If [VERN] has evidence that he insured this “rare 3D TV” for its full value, and if he claims that FedEx is lying, now is the time for him to provide evidence that he insured the shipment for its full value, as he claims.

Your word is your bond. If you promise a buyer to insure valuables for their full value, you are liable for any damage if you break your word and fail obtain insurance for the full value. (9/07/2022)

(in response, VERN then sent the same message to BBB that he sent on September 6. Here is VERN's response as he sent it again 2 days later: )

VERN: It was mid July 2021 when you received the TV.

You did report the in-transit damage to us a few weeks after you received the TV and I quote what you said "minor damage that does not effect the TV."

Not until mid January, 5 months after your received and were using the TV did you ask us for a copy of your receipt so you could file a freight damage claim with the carrier FedEx LTL.

The TV was sold as a 8 year old used TV and there is no guarantee on used TVs. You paid far less than the true value of the TV and it was sold as used in very good condition, but as is. (** See above message from 9/06/2022)

It feels unreasonable to bring up your request for a full refund 1 year and 2 months after you received and confirmed how much you are enjoying the TV and now filing a complaint on the public user forum and now with the BBB.

Truth is you purchased a 8 year old rare 3D TV and you paid far less than its actual value. (9/08/2022)

(Since I believe VERN is in a corner here regarding proof of insurance, I sent back almost the same message to BBB as my September 7 response, as follows: )

TIM: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# xxxxxxxx, and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:

{VERN] and [his business] advertised the TV in their own words as being a “very rare flagship Signature Series 77" 3D capable TV is in perfect condition and is available for sale.”
After the TV arrived bashed up with a bent screen and a widening gap separating the screen from the internal components, their response now to the BBB is that the TV was: “sold as used in very good condition, but as is.” “Perfect” condition and “very good” condition are 2 very different things to a buyer.

There is so much nonsense in the seller’s most recent response that most of it does not even merit a response: The ungrammatical quote about the TV, attributed to me in his response, was never said by me, in writing or otherwise. “The TV was sold as a 8 year old used TV” according to the most recent response by [VERN] and [his business]. They cannot provide any documents to prove this either because it is not true.

The real issue is that [VERN] promised that the TV would be insured for its full value in shipping. His exact words, in writing, were: “Yes, we insure the delivery for the full value.”
[VERN] is still claiming disingenuously in its BBB response that the shipment was insured for its full value, even though FedEx Freight wrote to me as follows: “FedEx Freight does not offer insurance. Unfortunately, since the TV was used and not new, carrier liability is limited to $ .50 per pound. Your shipper may have been unaware of this when you spoke with them.” I have attached the correspondence from FedEx to this response so that BBB can see who is telling the truth here.

FedEx claims that the limit of liability is $57.30. This complaint is brought precisely because [VERN] failed to insure the TV for its full value as promised. If [VERN] has evidence that he insured this “rare 3D TV” for its full value, and if he claims that FedEx is lying, now is the time for him to provide evidence that he insured the shipment for its full value, as he claims.
Your word is your bond. If you promise a buyer to insure valuables for their full value, you are liable for any damage if you break your word and fail to obtain insurance for the full value. If [VERN] and [his business] claim that FedEx is lying that they do not provide insurance, now is the time to provide proof that he insured for the full value, as he claims. (9/08/2022)

(VERN responded to BBB as follows: below. )

VERN: This customer is just making up things that are not true. He very clearly knew he was purchasing a 8 year old used TV.

I attached a cut and paste of his email reply to the freight carrier, Fed Ex where he tells them the TV is a 8 year old used TV.

(Here is what VERN attached as proof of his claim that I told FedEx the TV is a 8 year old used TV: )

(You can see that VERN's attachment, above, is the same attachment that I sent to BBB showing that FedEx Feight states that it does not offer insurance.)

(Below is the full message that VERN sent in his final response to BBB on September 9, 2022.)

VERN: This customer is just making things up that are not true. He very clearly knew that he was purchasing a 8 year old used TV. I attached a cut and past of his email reply to the freight carrier, Fedex where he tells them the TV is a 8 year old used TV.

Everything was above board and we have been nothing but helpful and generous with this customer. He reported the damage several weeks after receiving the TV and he signed the freight bill free and clear. One year and three months after he received the TV he is asking for a refund.

Let me know if you need anything from me.

[-VERN]

 

[Tino]

So much for keeping Vern anonymous.

I received a damaged OLED TV from Value Electronics.

This is all so sad to hear. I still hope it gets resolved.

 

[Malcolm R]

It hasn't been that difficult to figure out. As acronyms go, it seemed pretty transparent.

 

[Tino]

Oh I knew who it was. Just surprised that it was let out since the Mods seemed to be adamant about it not being revealed. Some of my speculating posts were even deleted. I’ve been to VE a few times and they were nothing but great to me. Like I said. It’s all very sad.

 

[John Dirk]

After having read through the entire story I'll offer the following.

I've also had dealings with Value Electronics and they've been nothing but a pleasure. I think this is an unfortunate situation for all involved but I also believe both parties to be decent and honorable at their core. If that is the case then there is an acceptable solution somewhere in the middle which both parties could live with. I sincerely hope it works out this way.

FWIW - I doubt even a credit card purchase protection plan would have covered a used item as there is no objective way of establishing it's condition and value before the sale.

 

[Robert_Zohn]

I am the dealer.

Tim received the 77G6 Signature Series OLED TV in late July 2021 and signed the Freight Delivery Receipt Free and Clear of any damage. He initiated the FedEx Freight claim in October almost 3 months after receiving the TV and although FedEx asked for the store receipt to finish the claim he did not request a copy of the invoice from me until December 30, which we emailed.

When he reported the minor damage to me which was also a few weeks after receiving delivery he said it was cosmetic and only seen from the backside under the TV, and the TV works perfectly.

FedEx has a long record of all emails and communications and the long delay in opening the claim after receiving the delivery without any exception and signing the Delivery Receipt "Free and Clear" put up a lot of red flags on your shipment and your claim.

Your shipment was insured, but with FedEx not liking the claim process he filed for the reasons listed above they changed the freight class to get out of the insurance coverage that we paid.

The morel of this story is that "No good deed goes unpunished" I sold him LG's 77" G6 Signature Series 3D TV far below it's actual value and favored him above all higher offers as I had worked with him first and wanted to give you the benefit of responding quickly when I listed it.

I said my peace and will not be following or responding any further.

 

[Timothy E]

Your shipment was insured, but with FedEx not liking the claim process he filed for the reasons listed above they changed the freight class to get out of the insurance coverage that we paid.

Below is the e-mail message received from FedEx Freight on January 24, 2022, regarding the insurance.

Robert, please contact me if you believe that FedEx Freight is incorrect in stating that they do not offer insurance.
I did, in fact, make notations on the receipt when signing for the shipment that there was damage, contrary to your post. If FedEx Freight is telling you differently, that is incorrect.

I wrote you an e-mail message on August 5, 2021, asking for your help in opening an insurance claim. (Post #34)

Even though you did not respond then, I would still very much appreciate your assistance with the claim. Thank you.

 

[JohnRice]

FedEx is playing word games with you. What they are referring to as "Carrier Liability" is what most people call "insurance". I don't ship with FedEx anymore, but I'd bet you anything that when you ship something, the field you fill out for the "Carrier Liability" amount actually says "Insurance." I know it does with other carriers (and it turns out, I was wrong), and I can probably verify it does with FedEx as well.

EDIT: It just goes to show how you do something every day and don't notice the details. The two shippers I checked state it as "Value" or "Declared Value." So they have their excuses covered. It doesn't matter what value you declare and pay for, when you file a claim you have to back it up. This is something I've explained previously. As I said before, you can declare a value of a Million $, and they will gladly charge the fee for that, but they will NOT pay it unless it is backed up with documentation.

The fact is, and I'm sorry this is the case, but if you wait three months to file a damage claim, any carrier in existence will come up with every excuse they can find to disallow it. They expect it within 2-3 days.

I have no horse in this race. I just understand shipping and deal with it every day.

 

[Bryan^H]

Below is the e-mail message received from FedEx Freight on January 24, 2022, regarding the insurance.

View attachment 157291

Robert, please contact me if you believe that FedEx Freight is incorrect in stating that they do not offer insurance.
I did, in fact, make notations on the receipt when signing for the shipment that there was damage, contrary to your post. If FedEx Freight is telling you differently, that is incorrect.

I wrote you an e-mail message on August 5, 2021, asking for your help in opening an insurance claim. (Post #34)

Even though you did not respond then, I would still very much appreciate your assistance with the claim. Thank you.

Tim, have you looked into TV repair shops in your area? Many can do wonders, and any cosmetic damage may be remedied making your damaged TV beautiful. It is just a thought, and possibly under $500 worth of repairs.

 

[Nelson Au]

I’ve restrained from posting here. I had a feeling I knew who the retailer was. I did have a fair experience with this retailer too, though it wasn’t perfect. I won’t say more here about that. But it was an experience I was curious to try because of all the positive experiences people had there. While my experience was not perfect, it turned out OK so far. I have decided to not do this again. I’ll go locally.

I’m also sorry to hear about your experience Tim. What I’m curious about is what does the damage look like? Any photos? I hope you will get this resolved one way or another.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Just seeing this thread now. What a journey!

Find it weird that the retailer constantly referred to the TV as "beautiful".

 

[Colin Jacobson]

BTW, large companies can be horrible when it comes to customer service as well.

I spent 5 months this year trying to get Samsung to adequately deal with a bad washing machine. They spent literally $2000+ trying to screw me... over a $550 appliance!