Bloody Sunday: UK vs Domestic audio

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Gabe Oppenheim, Apr 27, 2003.

  1. Gabe Oppenheim

    Gabe Oppenheim Stunt Coordinator

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    Does anyone have any idea what the difference between the two DD 5.1 tracks on the Bloody Sunday DVD is? The dialogue seemed to be a (very) little bit more understandable at times while watching the domestic track (I watched only the first 25 minutes with the UK track engaged), but the dialogue also seemed to be louder in the mix and often sounded like it peaked a lot or was excessively compressed; my audio engineer friend suggested that the track may have been remixed with gain adjusted/applied.

    I was just curious, especially as you do not often see a DVD with two tracks in (presumably) the same language where one is not (as far as I could tell) dubbed or otherwise altered in terms of content. Then again, that may be the difference between the two, and a good job was then done.

    The movie, BTW, is one of the best of 2002; far superior to the movie with which it is most often compared, Black Hawk Down , in terms of both emotional content as well as the seeming veracity of depictions and the ability of the filmmakers to at all times provide the audience with unparalleled sense of the mechanics and geography of a very chaotic event.
     
  2. Gabe Oppenheim

    Gabe Oppenheim Stunt Coordinator

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    Anyone? Please? [​IMG]
     
  3. Mario Bartel

    Mario Bartel Stunt Coordinator

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    Sorry Gabe, can't help you on your audio query, as I've only watched the first few moments of the dvd; but I did toggle between the two audio tracks, and, like you, found very little difference in the actual dialogue. Weird.

    Mostly, though, I want to concur with your endorsement of this excellent, but mostly overlooked, film. I saw it last Fall, at the Vancouver Film Festival, and I was blown away by the acting and newsreel look; by about ten minutes in, I forgot I was watching a dramatic film! Of all the fine films made over the years about the "troubles" in Northern Ireland, this must rank near the top.
     
  4. Piers C

    Piers C Stunt Coordinator

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    Is the R1 release the same as R2?

    just curious....

    -thanks
     
  5. Gabe Oppenheim

    Gabe Oppenheim Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm pretty sure that the R2 has a couple of special features beyond those on the R1 disc, as it has an additional interview with writer/director Peter Greengrass and some additional on-set stuff. Otherwise, the special features are the same.

    The UK disc, presumably, does not have the "domestic" audio track I am concerned about.
     
  6. Piers C

    Piers C Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the response Gabe.

    -regards
     
  7. Yumbo

    Yumbo Cinematographer

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    what is the OP?

    I know what the RUC is.

    Paras - paramilitaries?

    anyone care to give a rundown of the players involved?

    IRA
    RUC
    OP

    etc.
     
  8. Eric_AP

    Eric_AP Stunt Coordinator

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    I couldn't tell much of a difference in my brief comparison, but felt more comfortable with the original UK version -- since that was how it probably was originally presented.

    Regardless, about 25 minutes into it, I had to enable subtitles - due to the strong Irish accents (plus multiple people talking at once -- due to documentary style).

    We really thought this was a great film. Sad situation depicted, but we loved the movie.
     
  9. Maurice McCone

    Maurice McCone Stunt Coordinator

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    what is the OP?

    I know what the RUC is.

    Paras - paramilitaries?

    anyone care to give a rundown of the players involved?

    ----------------------

    OP - Observation Point

    RUC - Royal Ulster Constabulary , (Police Force)

    Paras - Parachute Regiment.

    I don't want to get into the politics of this, but to hear people talk of this film as fact - makes me want to weep

    [​IMG]

    This is a film made from ONE political view - a bit like a film of the fall of Kabul made by the Taliban !
     
  10. Eric_AP

    Eric_AP Stunt Coordinator

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    Clearly the film-maker presented a pro Catholic/pro-Irish (or you could say pro unarmed civilian) viewpoint.

    But I thought that the filmmaking team including both Brits and Northern Ireland people?

    Also, regardless of the point of view, I think that any time that that many civilians die, but not even any soldiers are seriously injured (or killed) -- something went badly wrong. Clearly the British response was out of porportion, simply based on the casualties.

    It seems odd that no British Military people were punished for what happened that day. Even if the IRA was in fact shooting at the British Paratroopers (and I don't doubt that there was some IRA gunfire), why would the British target people who were not in fact shooting and/or were unarmed? I don't think even the British military claim that all the dead and wounded were IRA gunmen.

    I think it was like the Kent State incident in the U.S. -- the troopers panicked and/or overreacted to a very tense, confusing and hostile situation. Perhaps they shouldn't have been blamed -- and punishment should not have occurred (as apparently it did not). Hard to say.
     
  11. Maurice McCone

    Maurice McCone Stunt Coordinator

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    Eric, you sound like a reasonable bloke, as you have pointed out, noone knows who shot those people, whether they had guns at the time or not; also the IRA hid behind innocent people like the Iraqi's just did in Bagdad, didn't stop the Marines opening fire..did it ?

    This film presented one stand point, it ignored evidence from the soldiers already given in court.

    As for few Brit casualties - is that relavant ? how many coalition troops died relative to Iraq's..doesn't mean they were in the wrong.

    Still, a nice bit of republican propaganda....just wait for the Iraqi version of Operation Freedom - I wonder if some of you will be praising the veracity of that as well [​IMG]
     
  12. Yumbo

    Yumbo Cinematographer

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    thanks,

    could someone please give me a brief history as to how NIreland came into being?

    is it something similar to how Israelis are settling Palestine (albeit much farther back)?

    this makes me think of why Irish soldiers had to be used in Braveheart, grin.

    and is NI a state, just like Wales and Scotland, or just a province like say the Channel Islands?

    NI doesn't have a Rugby Union, does it?
     
  13. Maurice McCone

    Maurice McCone Stunt Coordinator

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    Chris, NI is not being occupied, there are no English settlers, it is habited by Irish men who simply want an allegience to Britain, and have been for 400 years.

    The republican view is that since Ireland is an Island, it must be one political unit....try telling that to Canadians[​IMG]

    As for Rugby, there is a Northern Irish team and an internalional Ireland team.
     
  14. Yumbo

    Yumbo Cinematographer

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    ah yes,

    forgot about that.
    and the other group are called the unionists?

    orange parade is?

    thanks again
     
  15. Edwin-S

    Edwin-S Producer
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    Considering this movie was produced and directed by Englishmen (not Irish), it stands to reason that they (the English) thought their armed forces had committed a crime.



    was, I'm pretty sure, fake. The documentary feel of this movie gives phony scenes like that a patina of truth that is undeserved; however, in general, I think this movie gives an accurate picture of what happened.
     
  16. TimJS

    TimJS Second Unit

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    Um, a bit of a dangerous question and one which can lead to a lot of non-dvd content. Don't blame you for asking, but would observe that 'brief' explanations are not necessarily accurate ones, read up and make up your own mind about how brief you think you could explain something like No Ireland.

    I would be happy to point out some good reading material off-forum. You could also log into Amazon and search for the subject.

    Tim
     
  17. Edwin-S

    Edwin-S Producer
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    This is an oversimplification. There is a lot more to it than a political group thinking that an island should be one political unit. You are completely ignoring Irish Protestant concerns of becoming a powerless minority group in a unified, and largely Catholic, island nation.
     
  18. Maurice McCone

    Maurice McCone Stunt Coordinator

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    -----------------------------------------
    "It stands to reason that if the soldiers involved were facing the possibility of going to military prison for an unwarranted massacre, they would have good reason to lie and make sure that their stories presented them in the best light. From what I could see (in the film), British forces did not suffer any fatalities or seriously wounded men. I find it quite hard to believe that a force under fire would not suffer some serious casualities if widespread gunfire was, in fact, present."
    ------------------------------------------------------

    my point exactly Edwin - surely you can see that those giving the Republican view in this and the current court case, have the SAME motive to lie ?

    As for the lack of Brit casualties - I have already pointed out that there were many similar engagements in Iraq with few Brit or American caualties - doesn't mean they commited murder.
     
  19. Gabe Oppenheim

    Gabe Oppenheim Stunt Coordinator

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    Edwin, in reply to your spoiler query:

    That part of the movie was based on the case of Gerald Donaghy, a youth who, just as in the movie, was being taken to a hospital in a car, and was twice examined by the British (a doctor and a soldier, IIRC) before a third, posthumous, examination revealed bombs stuffed in his pockets. The conventional wisdom here is that the bombs absolutely would have been found by the first two examiners; as they weren't, they must have been planted. I believe that this figures in the U2 song as well as in most of the other accounts and is no longer one of the more disputed questions about the incident as a whole. Try this link here for a bit more.

    Some of the reviews in other quarters were a bit dubious about the movie marquee showing "Sunday, Bloody Sunday" seen near the beginning of the movie; Peter Greengrass, the writer/director, says in his commentary track that that movie was, ironically, playing on that day in Derry.

    Maurice, I don't think anyone is saying that all the British soldiers were committing murders. However, at least a couple of deaths of Irish (as depicted in the movie) could probably be considered murders; the cases of the man killed while lying in the street and the man waving a white handkerchief (sorry, can't recall names at this point) are instances of what, at the very least, may be called unjustified killings. Again, as far as I know, these specific incidents are no longer much disputed. Please correct me if I am wrong; I am, after all, an ignorant American!

    There are still questions about how the whole mess began; the story favoring the British is obviously different than the one favoring the Irish, and the one given in the movie certainly does favor the Irish. Still, it is fairly convicing (I can see soldiers being goaded by commanders as being very possible) and good chunks of the movie, including the ones described in the spoilers above, seem to be pretty close to hard fact, while others, such as the gunshots that began the incident, are not shown on camera.

    I stand by my great respect for the movie. Again, with Black Hawk Down, it seems pretty obvious that only one view is being presented (not the one of the "Skinnies") with little regard for objectivity. There may be little regard for objectivity in Bloody Sunday, but there seems to be at least some attempt to offer some objectivity to the proceedings. Once again, please correct my ignorance.

    --I'm sorry for the length of this post, but I'm trying to avoid my schoolwork at the moment!--
     

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