Big News: The Future of Firefly (1 Viewer)

[Malcolm R]

I don't think it's fair to compare Buffy and Angel to Firefly because those programs have had a few seasons or more under their belts

It's also not fair because Buffy and Angel are on UPN and WB, which have significantly less potential audience because there are not affiliates in many areas of the country. For all intents and purposes, Fox is now a major network that is capable of routinely placing shows in the Top 30, UPN and WB are not.

 

[Andy Sheets]

It's like taking your favorite "we don't care about mass audience tastes" indie band and consigning them to a deal with a major label. It's a bad fit.

A pretty apt summation of Joss Whedon's mentality too He's a guy who is almost always bashing elements of the Hollywood system and whose attitude toward audiences is basically "If you don't like what I'm doing then I don't want you as a viewer". I like Firefly a lot so I want it to keep going but I admit that I'd be truly amazed if Fox stuck with it for another season. His creative approach just doesn't seem to fit what a major network would stand for.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I think maybe the issue some have is not that the outer rim jumps a few centuries from their time but that it's jumping back a century or so from our time.

That's what it all boils down to. Personal tastes will always reign supreme, anyway

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Space...the final frontier (cue "Bonanza" theme).

Amusingly enough, the Battlestar Galactica gag reel opens with "Bonanza" (may have something to do with Lorne Green but still )

 

[Patrick Sun]

Geez Lou-weez, Happy Gilmore is playing in the 8-10 p.m. EST slot on Fox tonight. Not that I have anything against the movie, but will that really get better ratings than Firefly and John Doe?

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Sadly, probably
Happy Gillmore is reliable for a certain ratings number, probably in the 5-6 range

 

[Mike McNertney]

I think the western motif is an interesting conceit for the show.

About the technology being a century behind current tech... I don't know, look at the world today, and how far ahead technologically the industrialized nations are from other areas. And we are only separated by a few thousand miles. How disparate would things be between different solar systems? I think it makes perfect sense for them to have the level of technology that they have shown so far.

Think of it this way... yes as technology improves, we will be able to produce better, smaller, etc, devices. However you need more and more complex industy to produce those things. The level of tech they've shown (basic firearms, etc) can be produced without much heavy industry, which obviously a lot of these outer planets don't have. Would you take the latest and greatest high tech device out to the rim, knowing that if it breaks there is no way to repair it? No, you'd probably take something more reliable that can be fixed with basic pre-industrial tools. The industrial technology needed to produce more advanced things isn't going to go down in the future, it is going to go up, so I would expect areas without industry to fall back on the kind of tools we were able to make here on earth in the pre and early industrial period

Someone talked about US farmers using GPS and cell phones... Well, I hate to break it to you but US farmers are incredibly rich compared to the average population of a lot of nations. And they are living in the middle of one of the most developed nations on the planet, with a lot of industrial infrastructure to support these types of technologies. You can't exactly compare that to people living on an outer rim planet (or an undeveloped country here on earth). It would be more like saying people living in poverty in the core still have access to X and Y technologies.

 

[Phil Florian]

Mike, I think you have posted the clearest explanation about the technology in Firefly! That was great. I think it is easy to be culture-centric and think only from our perspective, but noting that some cultures aren't much different from where they were technologically 500 years ago is a great point...and they are on the same planet! Good stuff. And it isn't always wealth, either. I think the middle east...at least the part I read about by some journalists (long before 9/11, btw...like "Baghdad without a Map" or "Holidays in Hell") pointed to the fact that while some of these countries are extremely rich, at a structural level, there isn't much different there from 100 or 500 years ago. Sure, some dudes use cell phones or drive cars, but many still use pack animals and weave their own clothing. Too cool. Best explanation yet, imho.


Phil

 

[Andrew Beacom]

Mike,

Well said. I'm sure the farmers in India and China and Africa are not using GPS.

 

[Todd Terwilliger]

I think if one looks at past colonizations or expansions and applies those same models forward, I think a different pattern emerges. Look at the US West, or the US itself and Canada, or Australia. These were all the products of colonization and yet these countries are also the technological equal of the nations that colonized them.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

BUt they also had ready access to trade because they had exports that the mother countries wanted (tobacco, cotton, furs etc)

 

[Mark_Wilson]

There is a great book that discusses just this point. Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies
at Amazon
Basically its those three things that determined their outcome.

 

[Robert Ringwald]

"America's Funniest Home Videos," 6.0/11, was third for ABC, while FOX's movie "Happy Gilmore" was fourth.
www.zap2it.com
Bad news for Firefly, the movie Happy Gilmore easily beat out what the episode this would probably would have brought in. :frowning: Let's just hope that the next 2 movies bomb in that timeslot.

 

[Raasean Asaad]

I agree, exploration and colonization is one of the showcases for a society's technology. You always send the most advanced proven technology to make life easier. Thats why we haven't been to Mars, tech isn't advanced eough yet to make it a relatively easy trip yet.

 

[Jason Seaver]

You always send the most advanced proven technology to make life easier.

Except that "most advanced" and "proven" are often mutually exclusive.

 

[Bob McElfresh]

The level of tech they've shown (basic firearms, etc) can be produced without much heavy industry,

(as a Sci Fi fan I have to step in here )
They had a shoot-out scene where the six-guns were fireing laser bolts - what the heck?
I think the show has done a poor job of feeling plausable. Sure, sending people out to the far reaches with basic, easy to maintain tech makes sense. But the entire show is a poor mix of Sci Fi and Little House on the Prairie costume left overs. I get the feeling that the set/costume designers are sitting around saying "You want to put a cast-iron skillet on a space ship??" "Sure! Let's see how much silly crap we can throw in. The audience will buy what ever crap we give them."
Now that I think about it, thats exactly what bugs me: the developers have contempt for the audience. They have not spent any time considering how culture would develop on these remote planets, how old & new technology would mix, etc. EVERYTHING on the remote planets is old-west, yet they are colonists from a high-tech society who are somewhat cut-off because of a war. Sure, there is an All Terrain Vehicle or two, but thats about it. And every planet - nearly identical in dress, building style, apparent education level of the people - generic western.
I would hope that each planet would have a different look/feel/style as groups of people always bring their culture with them even when they emigrate. The ONLY interesting, un-explained part of the culture is the occasional Chinese words/phrases. And you would think if everyone knows Chinese there would be more influence other than a few glyphs on some crates.
It's not complex, it's not interesting, it does not make me curious about the back-story. I dont feel like I am looking at anything creative. Just cut-and-paste western sets and clothing.
To quote from a better-written series: "Bored Now..."

 

[Barry Woodward]

To quote from a better-written series: "Bored Now..."

Yes, I am truly "bored now" after reading your long drawn out biased hogwash. We are all entitled to our opinions but quibbling over chicken shit details is pointless. Just let go of your anal nitpicking and enjoy the story for what it is. Although Firefly is set in the future the story could be told in any setting. It really isn't a sci-fi show although it has some elements of sci-fi. The story is king in Joss Whedon's universe so if all you want is to see sci-fi correctly portrayed then I suggest you look elsewhere.

 

[Todd Terwilliger]

Barry,

Rather than attacking his opinion as "long drawn out biased hogwash", why not actually respond with something that furthers the discussion?

I do not think details are pointless because it is the details that bring the universe alive. Any story can be told in any time period but Whedon chose a sci-fi setting. Therefore, I think it's okay to question their execution of that milieu.

 

[Barry Woodward]

If I can't attack his opinion then you can attack my opinion of his opinion. My point is the story is what is most important in Firefly and the setting is not. Therefore to let the setting and small details turn you off to the story is unfortunate. Joss Whedon has made attempts to make the world as believeable as he can by not having sound in space, etc. but in the end the story is what counts.

 

[Roberto Carlo]

EVERYTHING on the remote planets is old-west, yet they are colonists from a high-tech society who are somewhat cut-off because of a war.

Precisely. Mark Wilson mentioned Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs & Steel." In it, Diamond explains why it is that a society that excelled in astronomy and had a first-class system of civil engineering, the Maya, didn't have the wheel: the mountainous jungle terrain mitigated against it and they didn't have any domesticated animals that could pull the cart. I mention this because the difference between the folks on the outer planets and the Maya, or people in parts of Africa and Asia today, is that the former aren't indigenous to their locales. They are colonists. As you pointed out, they are the product of a culture that had mastered space flight and terra-forming. They share what anthropologists call "memes," ideas and concepts that shape their view of the world and their culture. Sure, it makes sense that the losing side of a civil war would be poor -- perhaps significantly so -- but there's no reason why they would revert six centuries worth, much less revert in an identical fashion across dozens of planets. What's more, the thing about memes and technological know-how is that the principal source of wealth and advancement resides in people's heads, not their bank accounts. Unless we posit that every engineer and scientist lives in the core, we would expect to see at least some planets reflecting what is after all the technological civilization that produced them all.
Then again, it's only television.