Bi-Wiring Paradigm Monitor 7 Anyone?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by BradP, Jan 2, 2002.

  1. BradP

    BradP Guest

    Has anyone here bi-wired their Paradigm Monitor 7 speakers and did it improve things? Mine sound great, but the idea they can even sound better has me thinking. My speakers are close to the receiver so it wouldn't take a lot of wire.

    Has anyone else bi-wired these or similar? Any caveats I need to know since I haven't done this before?

    I only have a Sony 835 receiver (I know, I know...I am waiting for the 6.1 boxes to come down in price) - Will the receiver limit my bi-wiring benefit gains?

    I am using Sound King wire, size 16 for the fronts and 12 for the rears. Anyone know what kind of connectors are best as well? I just had used bare wire with my old Monster cable. Can I get connectors at Radio Shack or Home Depot or something if I want to use them?

    Oh, and does anyone know what I should set my receiver to for my CC-370, Monitor 7, and Mini Monitors for home theater? All to the LARGE size to allow them to process bass signals on their own I assume?

    Thanks,

    Brad
     
  2. GarryW

    GarryW Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 1999
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Brad and welcome to the HTF. You'll find a LOT of great information here![​IMG]
    As far as bi-wiring those M7's with your reciever, I wouldn't expect much. Use the search function and look up bi-wiring as it is a one of those controversial topics like cables with mixed results.
    Instead, I would advise you to save some bucks for a multi-channel amp or start with some monoblocks and add them to your Sony reciever. Then eventually move up to a preamp. I started with a Denon reciever, added 5 Marantz Monoblocks, then an Marantz pre-amp. The Monitor 7's are a great speaker, and you'll see a big improvement in their performance with a seperate amp. You could just start with a 2 channel amp for the M7's, then add a 5 channel later.
    You didn't say you have a sub in your setup. If not, definitely get one! Other wise, I would set your M7's to large and all others to small.
     
  3. BradP

    BradP Guest

    Garry,
    Thanks for your reply. I will do a bi-wiring search then, I see the forum is slow today so I may try that later on. [​IMG]
    As for a sub, yes I do in fact, I have a JBL DSP-12 sub that rocks the ground pretty well. I always figured though that I should set speaker size to LARGE if I've got a good speaker than can handle the bass. That way, the speakers that can handle the bass do it.
    So, you're suggesting that I set the center channel and surrounds to small, so the bass on those goes to the sub instead?
    Does anyone else have any thoughts on this topic?
    Thanks again for your reply! I will hold off on the bi-wiring until I learn more.
    Brad
     
  4. TylerN

    TylerN Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I bi-wired my Monitor 7 v.2s shortly after i got them and there was a noticable improvement in mid-range/bass response.

    At the very least you should upgrade those flimsy gold jumpers to some decent cable.
     
  5. GarryW

    GarryW Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 1999
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    >>>So, you're suggesting that I set the center channel and surrounds to small, so the bass on those goes to the sub instead?
     
  6. BradP

    BradP Guest

    Tyler,

    I'm not sure what you mean by flimsy gold jumpers...Could you elaborate? I just bought the Sound King wire so I am going to use that, and perhaps I will then try a bi-wire, I'm just wondering if I should add connectors to them or not? And if so, what kind work well with bi-wiring?
     
  7. GarryW

    GarryW Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 1999
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There are two sets of jumpers between the + and - binding posts. If you do not remove these jumpers before you bi-wire the speakers, you'll be very sorry.

    Read the instructions that came with the speakers, they explain it well. And if you still feel adventurous, go ahead and try it.

    Bi-wiring will not give you the same results as bi-amping.
     
  8. Salvador

    Salvador Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2001
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    my stance on biwiring is why not? based on the mixed opinions about biwiring that i have read, it wouldn't hurt to try and it doesn't cost a bundle (except if you're using those exotic cables).
     
  9. BradP

    BradP Guest

    Cool then.

    So you guys suggest that with my setup (I do have the big JBL sub) that I should only set my Monitor 7's to large, and let the CC-370 and Mini Monitors be set to small size, so the sub handles their bass signals?

    Does that hurt the bass direction at all when watching a film that's recorded in 5.1, if, for example, bass is supposed to come from the center or surrounds? I thought that the CC-370 at least had a good bass to it and should be used.

    If set to SMALL, does that mean that those speakers will NEVER produce bass, and only the sub will do it?

    Thanks,

    Brad
     
  10. Brian Fellmeth

    Brian Fellmeth Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    789
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  11. Nick G

    Nick G Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2001
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  12. Eric_M

    Eric_M Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 1999
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey Brad

    you have the same system except for the reciever, that I am waiting on. I am just trying to decide to go with the Titans or Mini Monitors or Monitor 3's for the surround.
     
  13. BradP

    BradP Guest

    Thanks for all the advice!

    The setup is really great, Eric, and I love how the minis sound, they have some nice color to them.

    Can anyone recommend a connector type when bi-wiring? Does everyone here use bare wire or do you put banana clips or something else on the end of your wires?

    Brad
     
  14. TylerN

    TylerN Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Brad, those gold jumpers I was talking about are the flat peices of metal that come with your speaker to connect your high(-) to low(-) and high(+) to low(+) speaker terminals when you are not bi-wiring. Many have found that replacing them with short pieces of ordinary speaker cable will improve the sound.

    I use banana clips because of the convenience and looks, but if you go that route make sure you get good quality banana clips, either the expandable springy type or a locking style.

    Using bare wire works very well, but if you are worried about your exposed copper cable getting oxidized then you'll have to unhook them, cut them and strip them every once in a while. With good quality cable this doesn't have to be done often, once or twice a year maybe?

    I use the 24k gold locking style banana's from Radio Shack, I silver soldered them onto a set of homemade braided cat5 cable. Works great.
     
  15. GarryW

    GarryW Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 1999
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    >>>I'm not sure what was meant by this, but biwireing without removing the jumpers involves no risk at all. The only harm that could posibly do is neutralize any benefits of the biwiring (presuming any benefits exits).
     
  16. TylerN

    TylerN Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Garry, despite what the manual says, there is NO RISK at all in leaving the jumpers on while bi-wiring. Like Brian said it will only NEGATE the effects of bi-wiring.

    Just think about it...
     
  17. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    7,270
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Tyler is quite right. This also suggests a rather simple test that can be performed by any and all users who are presently biwiring and/or contemplating it to see if you can actually tell if there is an audible effect from biwiring as opposed to single wiring.

    Understand this is a single blind test...not as good as a DBT, but far easier to implement since hopefully we have two other people we can rely on.

    Choose the musical passage you'll be evaluating. Let it be something you're familiar with (or not...your choice). Have you and the two other people listen to it first of all single wired and then biwired (the explanation of what that is follows). Listen as many times as you like.

    Setup your biwires but leave the jumpers connected to one of the binding posts on both the left and right speakers (top or bottom doesn't matter).

    You, the listener, sit down in your favorite listening position. Place a blindfold over your eyes. You'll also need the aid of two assistants. Have one of the assistants flip a coin say 10 times...20 is better...the more times the better, and record the results, H or T, on two pieces of paper. H can represent biwired...T can represent single wire. Or the other way whatever the assistant wishes.

    Each assistant then gets in back of each speaker with their paper that indicates whether the test they will be performing will involve biwiring or not. As stated previously, T was single wire and H biwire for the purposes of this example. Say the first test is T. The assistants will then simultaneously rotate the jumpers into position. This shorts out the HF and LF speaker binding posts and creates a single wire configuration where the only thing different is that the speakers are now single-wired. The overall gauge is the same...the lengths are the same...the materials are the same...the speaker wires haven't moved, etc. etc. etc.

    You the listener, record your results after listening to whatever musical passage it was after each of the tests. No, don't take off your blindfold...Just say biwire or single wire...let the assistants write down what you said.

    Then since you have two other people, Let assistant A be the listener and you take his/her place. Repeat the test with a new set of coin flips. Then finally once more with the assistant that was not tested etc.

    Now for the reporting of the results. Well that could be done here at the forum through a post or you could email your results to myself and I'd be glad to compile them and after say a month, post the results and the analysis. What? You say you don't trust me because I'm an objectivist, or naysayer, or repulican or too tall or too short? No problem...perhaps a subjectivist or yea sayer or democrat with a math background would care to step up to verify the compilation? You can contact me at my email link.

    I suggest the reporting of the results in the following way.

    Your ID:

    ACTUAL...........YOUR RESULT

    Your ID could be your username on HTF, but I'd prefer something like combining your birthday with say the first two characters of your licence. So if you were born Dec, 1, 1959 and your licence were HI455J then your ID would be 12011959HI. Keeps it anonymous and would allow you to readily retrieve your results from the group posting.

    Audio is fun...so are movies...so is cooking. Let's find out, through a group effort, if there is BS in biwiring or not. This could be fun, no?

    What do you all say?
     
  18. Adil M

    Adil M Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2001
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I like it.
     

Share This Page