Better Then or Better Now: Make the call on classic favorites (1 Viewer)

[smithb]

It appears the most controversial choices are the Irwin Allen titles. I own Voyage... and Time Tunnel and for me it is about being in the right mood before watching them. The plots and effects can definitely be cheesy and the actors are trying to play it with the utmost seriousness. So as long as I'm in the mood to just relax, suspend all believe, and leave all seriousness at the door I can really enjoy them very much. Definitely not like watching Star Trek, but it can still be fun.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Regarding MASH...

The no laugh track option has spoiled me. I can't even bear to watch an over the air version of the show anymore because of the laugh track.

Once you view MASH without that annoying laugh track, it's kind of hard to go back to hearing 20 year old canned braying every 10 seconds.

Then and Now

Cheers.

The show hasn't aged badly (except for some Red Sox references). It's still a fine show in both the Sam and Diane era, and the more slapstick ensemble years.

 

[irishsooner]

how about the simpsons! since it has been on so long a lot of the jokes are old and had more meaning then. like when homer was given the denver bronco's and was upset at the end because all they did was lose. before their superbowl winning ways. basically referencing people and the events in the episodes.

also then: the cop shows from the 70's because you thought it was so new and were shown the police procedures and how gritty the dramas. now: how outdated the procedures are, the uniforms and police cars driving on the backlots of the studios. some of it has to do the production values and hairstyles, clothing that defined the period we grew up in and we have evolved from that time.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

It's funny how I hear the same thing a lot ... those who grew up with "I Love Lucy" found "The Lucy Show" and "Here's Lucy" more-or-less appalling ... and I'm surprised every time I hear that those who grew up with "The Lucy Show" and "Here's Lucy" found "I Love Lucy" strange or hard to relate to or something.

I have to vote thus on those shows:

BETTER THEN:
I Love Lucy. But I only say that because as a kid I thought it was flawless, but now I see there are at least some scenes in some episodes that are on the dumb side. Also, I find the way everyone was instructed to talk so loud at all times unrealistic and irritating. However, it's still my favorite TV show of all time.

BETTER NOW:
The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy. But I only say that because when they were new, I thought they were absolutely terrible compared to "I Love Lucy," and now I think that most of the time they're just bad ... although I'm shocked at times to see an episode that I find actually adequate, taken for what it is.

 

[Gary OS]

BETTER THEN:

Green Acres - The zaniness just doesn't hold up for me as an adult. It's not bad now, but it was better when I was a kid. For some reason it just wears on me at this point in my life.

I Dream of Jeannie - Other than the 1st Season, which I still like, this show doesn't hold my interest like it used to (Barbara Eden not withstanding).

F Troop - Not even close. I couldn't get into this one at all now.

Get Smart - Not bad if taken in small doses, but it drains on me now after an hour or so. I love Don Adams and had a crush on Barbara Feldon as a youngster, so I’m at a loss as to why this doesn’t hold up as well for me now as then. But as the first post indicated, this is all subjective.

At first I wanted to say the common link with these four is that they could all get very silly at times, but then I thought about other shows that can be just as silly yet still hold up for me. Things like GILLIGAN'S ISLAND and THE MUNSTERS, for two examples. I think the difference might be that the four shows above were zany all the time. With GI and MUNSTERS, there are still times where I see at least a little bit of sentimentality and for some reason that plays with me better now as an adult. I know some will not understand that, but it's what I see.

Irwin Allen Shows - With one exception. I still really enjoy the first 2 seasons of VTTBOTS. Read Michael's comments and you'll get my feelings as well.

Here's Lucy - This one really, really didn't hold up well. I imagine as a kid I was just watching for the silliness, but not now. I bought that "Best Of" set thinking I'd love it. Big mistake. I absolutely can't stomach it now.

Family Ties – This is one of those shows I actually watched while in high school. Had a major crush on Justine Bateman. It’s just not as interesting for me now. Maybe my hormones played a greater part in this than I thought.


BETTER NOW:

Rawhide – Easily the biggest surprise for me in all of my TV on DVD collection. I have very, very vague memories of this in years gone by so maybe it’s not fair for me to list it here as “Better Now”, but it’s such a great favorite of mine I had to list it. Add Gunsmoke to this list as well.

Have Gun, Will Travel – Same as above. A very well written, adult western that’s really high on my favorites list.

The Untouchables – This one I saw in reruns with my folks in the early 70’s, and I certainly didn’t enjoy it then like I do now.

Hawaii Five-O – I know, I know. For a lot of you guys that are a bit older than me this comes as a shock. But I was born in ’65 and didn’t really understand or get into how great those 60’s and 70’s cop shows were. This one is a true treat, with great location and scenery really making it a sight to behold.

Beverly Hillbillies – I agree with those that said this show had a lot more sophistication than the critics gave it credit for. The word play and misunderstandings about simple things is fantastic with this series. I liked it ok as a kid, but I love it now.

Ozzie and Harriet – Definitely didn’t appreciate this one when I’d see it on reruns as a kid. Now it’s one of my favorites.

Dick Van Dyke Show – As others have said, I loved the pratfalls and such as a kid. Now I love all the interaction. Very adult sitcom, but not in a bad way. Just great all the way around.

Hogan’s Heroes – Don’t know why, but I like it a lot better now.

The Honeymooners – I never got into this one when I was a kid. But I love it now.


BETTER THEN and BETTER NOW:

Perry Mason – Loved it as a kid and teenager and love it now. ‘Nuff said.

Quincy – Same as above. I’ve always had an affinity for mysteries and courtroom dramas, and this one was always a favorite. I know it got a tad preachy at times, but I still enjoyed Klugman’s performance.

This post is already too long so I’ll just list some of the others that fall into this category sans commentary.

That Girl, Father Knows Best, Leave it to Beaver, The Fugitive, Andy Griffith Show, Family Affair, The Lone Ranger, Daniel Boone, The Big Valley, The Munsters, Wild Wild West, Adventures of Superman, I Love Lucy, The Flintstones.

I could list dozens more but this list is far too big as it is.


Gary “thanks again for a great topic, Wayne” O.

 

[Hollywoodaholic]

James,

I haven't seen that show recently since it's not available yet on DVD and not airing, that I know of, but I would probably still enjoy and appreciate it. The show was deliberately camp and over-the-top. It played on the perceptions of a cartoon superhero beautifully. It basically said, "How can you really take this serious? We don't. So have some fun."

Oddly, enough, I think it will age much better than the re-imagined "The Dark Knight" version of Batman because this whole post-9/11 melancholy, everything-must-be-deadly-serious mood will pass. Mocking a grown up man in tights, his boy sidekick, and some deliciously goofy villains .... timeless.

Having met Adam West at Art's deli once many years ago only added to my appreciation of the camp ironies of this 'macho' superhero classic.

BETTER NOW:

The Prisoner. This is a difficult call. Obviously it's a brilliant show that has influenced almost every 'head games' drama on television ever since, especially Lost, Alias, Dollhouse, etc. etc. But when I first watched it in 1968, I was still more into the gimmickry, gadgets and action of James Bond or The Man From U.N.C.L.E. The 'head games' played on Number 6 were still a little over my head. But I loved the Rover balloon, of course. Gimmicks and gadgets eventually become passe (Why do you think the Daniel Craig version of James Bond focuses more on pure action?). Head games never go out of style.

Today, I relish this show for what it was and still is; a great game of mind chess. Patrick McGoohan was truly a genius who almost single-handedly conceived the future of head game paranoia sci-fi. What's real? What isn't? Who's with you? Who's against you? And it's even more precious for not going beyond the 17 episodes of initial inspiration. American television would have milked the concept into banality.

But, of course, the objective call on this one should be that it was Brilliant Then, and it is Brilliant Now.

 

[Hollywoodaholic]

Good list and reasons, Gary. And no post like yours is too long if it's interesting, IMO.

It's surprising how 'adult' all the westerns of the late '50s and early '60s were (and how violent). I look forward to checking out Rawhide and Have Gun Will Travel again on DVD. I was too young first time around. My first favorite western character was Trampas on The Virginian. Lighter faire.

 

[Theodore J. Mooney]

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[Jeff Flugel]

Cool thread!

BETTER THEN:

THE RAT PATROL - Absolutely ate this up when I was a kid. Dull as dirt now, unfortunately.

JOHNNY QUEST -- Have to agree with Joe A, was really quite surprised at how bland this was now. Great art design and music, though, so will keep it out of nostalgia, but a disappointment nonetheless.

Agree on most of the Irwin Allen shows...good pilots, some good early episodes, but downhill from there. I do confess to having a soft spot for THE TIME TUNNEL, though, from syndication viewings as a yougster.

Most sitcoms (this is probably more a personal bias as anything, as sitcoms have never been my favorite genre). THE ADDAMS FAMILY felt very one-note to me...just couldn't get into it, as much as I wanted to. Can't stomach a single ep of GILLIGAN'S ISLAND, THE PARTRIDGE FAMILY or THE BRADY BUNCH now, despite watching them ad nauseum growing up in the 70s. Some sitcoms I'd like to give another shot to, such as LEAVE IT TO BEAVER, MY THREE SONS and THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES. Do like BEWITCHED and HOGAN'S HEROES still.

BONANZA - A staple of my childhood viewing, it's hard for me to watch now, due to its overly-studio bound nature. The comedic episodes hold up better for some reason.



BETTER NOW:

More classy adult or light-hearted/cynical fare, like THE FUGITIVE, MAVERICK, THE ROCKFORD FILES and ROUTE 66. Great shows that would have bored me as a kid, I'm sure.

THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW - Used to be too corn-pone for me. Now I really enjoy its gentle yet sharply-observed humor. And of course Barney Fife.

THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW - Liked it as a kid fairly well, but am much more impressed with it now. A classic sitcom that still holds up!

GUNSMOKE - Used to dislike this show, mainly because they were in what seemed like their 57th season by that point (early 70s) and it just seemed tired. But watching the first few seasons on DVD illustrates just how good of a show this was when it first started out.


GREAT THEN and STILL HOLD UP:

THE WILD WILD WEST - was very relieved to see that (other than the odd clinker here and there) this series is as good as I remembered it.

THE INVADERS - Still gripping, sober sci-fi.

THE PRISONER
STAR TREK (original)
THE TWILIGHT ZONE
THE OUTER LIMITS
ALFRED HITCHCOCK PRESENTS
THE AVENGERS
DOCTOR WHO (original series)
HAVE GUN, WILL TRAVEL

Pure genius, all of the above.

THE NIGHT STALKER - cheesy as all hell and in dire need of bigger budgets and better scripts towards the end of the series' run, but I'll always love this show for Darren McGavin and the premise.



SHOWS I NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO SEE UNTIL NOW

RAWHIDE - want to like it as much as many on this board do, but it's been hit and miss for me so far.

BAT MASTERSON - Really well-done western series.

CHEYENNE - The first season is a little juvenile and reliant on old Warner Bros. scripts, but I hear it picks up quite a bit in later seasons (which we'll sadly never likely see on DVD).

THE PHIL SILVERS SHOW (SGT. BILKO) - Great stuff.

I SPY - Overall, really impressed with this buddy/spy show, esp. the extensive location filming in exotic locales.

 

[Joe Tor1]

Overall, what I'm getting from this thread, is that COMEDIES have aged badly.

DRAMAS have aged fairly well.

SCI-FI / FANTASY varies by individual opinion.

Oddly, that's what I was expecting.

Very interesting results!

 

[Hollywoodaholic]

Good analysis. What's funny definitely changes more over time and generations than what's dramatic. Laugh-In being the perfect example. What were we thinking? (But Goldie Hawn in a bikini still works)

And Sci-Fi usually boils down to whether it was gadget-based or story based. If the characters and stories were solid, we can look past dated, goofy gadgets. But if that was the main focus of the show, watch out.

Also, the warmth of nostalgia shades everything. Or not ...

BETTER THEN:

The Mod Squad It was such a product of the hippie era, and I watched this with my older hippie bell-bottom-wearing sisters and we thought Pete, Linc and Julie were like, cool. I watch this set today and I recognize that the scripts are pedestrian hack stuff written by veteran (old) TV codgers who really had no clue about the values or ideals of hippies at the time, but were just pandering to youth in hopes of a scoring a hit show. The viewpoint is still more disdainful of the youth and hippie movement in the show, then trying to understand it or honestly represent it in any way. No wonder Pete, Julie and Linc never smiled. What they said and did (in the script) were still firmly controlled by ... the MAN.

Movies at the same time like "Easy Rider" were actually turning over the reins to the 'kids.' I guess too much is at stake, moneywise, in television, for anything like that to have happened. The closest TV came to every really turning over the reins at the time was ...

BETTER THEN and NOW:

... The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour. Now here's a time capsule variety show that actually does give a hipper glimpse of that era, as concieved and created by the people who were defining it (the next generation). With writers like Steve Martin, Dave Osbourne, David Steinberg, etc. Peformers like the Doors, Joan Baez, Donovan. The classic 2-minute history of the United States film clip. Pat Paulsen. And, as corny as the Smothers Brothers gentle folk act was, there is a timeless quality about it because of their great chemistry as brothers.

The fact that they actually talked cleverly and coyly and critically about what was really happening at the time (Vietnam, riots at the Democratic Convention) doomed the show to censorship and abrupt cancellation (while still at the top of the ratings) ... but it has also guaranteed the show a certain immortality.

 

[Bert Greene]

This is a nifty topic, but I don't think I can contribute much to it on a case-by-case basis. Mainly, because I pretty much find myself enjoying ALL these old shows more than ever. True, I'm undoubtedly more cognizant of various aesthetic 'deficiencies' in production values or thin scripts, but I don't let such things automatically undermine my entertainment. In such cases it's easy enough just to shift perspective, and enjoy something for other reasons, like its time-capsule visuals or appreciating it as part of the larger cultural context it represents. I can derive a lot of subtle satisfaction from such things.

It's really difficult to pinpoint examples in which my opinion has changed that much through the years. I still love dramas like "Fugitive," "Route 66," "Naked City," and such, just as much as I did 20-30 years ago. Same with westerns like "Rawhide" and "Have Gun," and sitcoms like "Dick Van Dyke" and "Father Knows Best." Series I was less than enamoured with, I'm still less than enamoured with. If pressed, I could add that "I Spy" and "Combat" are much, much better than I originally acknowledged. But again, I'm really enjoying just about everything more than ever. Even the most cornball shows (paging, 3rd-season, "Voyage/Sea"). I guess one of the reasonings for all this is in juxtaposition to my ever-increasing loathing of modern television... the slap-happy editing and quick cuts, the annoying music, the sleaze, the pretentious posed shots. It really gives me a headache. And it makes me RELISH these old shows all the more.

 

[Joe*A]

This thread started as a great idea that's blossoming into something special. What I'm getting out of all your responses are suggestions for which show to get into that I never thought I'd be interested in. I've always stuck to the greats (All in the Family, Mary Tyler Moore, Star Trek, Barney Miller, Twilight Zone, et. al.) but I'm hearing great thoughts behind other shows: Time Tunnel for one, Rawhide, etc.

Keep'em coming!!!

 

[Tim Tucker]

BETTER THEN:
Wonder Woman. I still like the WWII season, but the '70s episodes just don't work as well. But Lynda Carter will always own that role.

The Partridge Family. Same category as Gilligan and Brady Bunch. Never again.

BETTER NOW:
The Wild Wild West. Watching it in reruns in the '80s, I just thought that it was OK. Watching it on DVD, I'm struck by how outrageous and surreal the concept was, and how well creator Michael Garrison executed it on screen.

Gunsmoke. In the early '70s, Gunsmoke seems alternately dull or disturbing. On DVD, I can see what brilliant drama is was back in the '50s.

One Step Beyond. While no Twilight Zone, in its best episodes, it can still raise the gooseflesh.

BETTER THEN AND NOW:
Star Trek. Rewatching all three seasons just impressed on me again just how original this show was, something that three decades of sequels had almost obliterated.

Rocky and Bullwinkle. Just because I now get the sly humor Jay Ward inserted into the script that just used to fly over my head.

And a couple of blind spots: Irwin Allen and Norman Lear. Something about Allen's sci-fi shows always struck me as a bit off, and I've never warmed to them. (However, I did just buy the first season of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea cheap at Target, so I'm willing to give him another chance.)

And Lear's '70s sitcoms (with the sole exception of Sanford and Son, thanks to the brilliance of Redd Foxx), I found to be strident, loud and disturbing as a child, and I haven't changed my mind as an adult. When I think of Norman Lear, I think of the attempted rape of Edith Bunker, and Penny Woods being burned with a hot iron by her mother. This is entertainment?

 

[Montytc]

Better Now:
Andy Griffith- Probably moved too slow for a young boy, fits an old man (53) very well
Dick Van Dyke Show-One of the greatest casts ever
Route 66
Murder She Wrote
Room 222

Better Then:
Mod Squad- Very dated and unrealistic
Bewitched
Man From UNCLE

Better Then and Now:
Beverly Hillbillies
Green Acres- This one has always reminded me of Newhart. One sane guy surrounded by total insanity
Wild, Wild West
Hawaii Five-O
Rockford Files

 

[Rob_Ray]

If you want to read the ramblings of old boomer:

I think our tastes in comedy change the most as we age. What we find funny as kids we find silly as adults and what we find boring as kids we find charming as adults.

Generally though, as I get older I tend to find any older show or movie (comedy, drama, whatever) more entertaining than anything offered today. I prefer the slower pacing, the heightened reality offered by the brighter lighting, the more formal writing and especially the wonderful character actors who were key to success of virtually every show on the air.

But most of all, I miss the charm of the older shows. The sense of humility that was best personified by the speech given by Red Skelton at the end of his program: "We thank you for allowing us to come into your homes and hope we haven't offended. May God bless!" It was truly a different world then.

So, as a result, most older series tend to age well with me. For example, I thought "The Flying Nun" was the silliest idea of a show I had ever heard of back in '67. It's still a silly premise, as the show could have been just as effective with Sr. Bertille being a wild, impetuous Gidget-joins-a-convent personality without the needless flying gimmick. But the show today has more charm than anything on the air now and is much better than it had any right to be, given the dopey idea it was based on.

Ditto "Family Affair" and shows of that nature. They were never laugh-out-loud funny. But they had a little moral and left you feeling just a little bit better after a long day at school or work.

Some shows were definitely "of their time." "Laugh-In" is a classic example. Some shows are timeless -- great then and great now: "I Love Lucy" and "Dick Van Dyke" are two examples here.

But most shows haven't changed much for me. People watched "Here's Lucy" out of sheer habit back in the 1968-74 and it was as lame then as it is now.

"Green Acres" was inspired insanity and it's as good now as when it was on Wednesday nights. The shows that hold up the best for me are the ones that are set in their own timeless little universe, somewhat divorced from reality, like Green Acres.

 

[Hollywoodaholic]

Nicely written piece, Rob. I understand your sentiment.

Sometimes a thread like this can scare posters off because it's basically asking them to THINK about stuff like you're talking about: Do I love these shows because it was a different time and they truly had a different quality, or do I just love these shows because I want to be young again? It's so much easier to post back and forth 100 times whether a DVD series package can officially be called "complete" or just "bundled." (Hey, that's fun, too)

But I've really been impressed by what everyone's brought to the table here, and it's cool that it's got people re-thinking about shows and their appeal, and for others, just THINKING about checking them out for the first time. It's been a good read, everybody, thanks.

BETTER NOW:

Naked City This gritty, realistic, character crime show has already been mentioned, but it definitely falls under the category of one of those adult 10 o'clock shows I rarely got to see when it first aired, or appreciate as a kid, but totally have enjoyed re-visiting now. I love noir films, and it makes sense this series was spun off a noir feature of the same name. I bet it is particularly great viewing for native New Yorkers getting a tasty glimpse of their city on location in the early '60s. I re-watch a lot of '60s L.A. shows for the same reason - to see the locations as they looked then, before I ever lived there, and for the nostalgia of those locations now that I've long since left.

I wonder, what is the L.A. equivalent of THIS show? Chicago had M-Squad, but what was a noir version of L.A. for television back then?

 

[smithb]

Having come into TV show purchasing more recently I have had the benefit of getting in on quite a few sales of late, that was an obvious benefit.

But on the other hand, I have also missed out on a few that have since gone OOP, Naked City being one. :frowning:

Anyone have any inside information on whether Naked City is going to make a return?

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Boy, do I agree with these sentiments.

I'd like to add some comments to them.

" ... the slower pacing." Actually, I find present-day dramatic movies to be much more slowly paced than old movies, especially movies from the 1940s. Added to the underplaying that passes for acting these days -- with lines almost whispered, and said with little emotion -- I find modern films to be unwatchable.

" ... the heightened reality offered by the brighter lighting." Among many other things that mystify me about modern film technique, I have to laugh at the notion that dark lighting and a hand-held camera make things look "real." To me, it's the exact opposite. How many of us live in dim lighting, with everything jittery all around us? Combined with the more natural acting style, I think movies and TV reached their peak of "naturalness" in the late 50s and early 60s.

" ... 'Here's Lucy'." You are so right about that. I've heard comments, "People were stupid to find this funny back then." Well, no ... we didn't find it funny. Actually, I found it depressing ... and so did everyone else I knew. I finally gave up on it after about four years.

I know people now who look back fondly on "Here's Lucy." It always turns out they were about eight years old when they liked it the most.

 

[DVD S.]

to me, if anything, there is more to enjoy now than there was then.
possibly it is a nostalgia factor where I can enjoy things that I enjoyed
when I was younger(with a few exceptions)and I can enjoy things that
I could not appreciate at a younger age(those that had a more 'adult'
sensibility), as well as shows that I never saw as a kid, but can watch now.
I think that the dvd format provides the ability to view these shows in ways that they could not when shown in syndication(and especially with 3 1/2 minute commercial breaks).I guess that I am the odd one out here, because I still enjoy watching all of the Irwin Allen shows, though I think that "Lost In Space" mainly has nostalgic value(I believe that I could get caught up in the suspension of dis-belief better when I was a kid, over nowadays).I think that it is funny that no one mentions the fact that all shows have their bad episodes(some were always just 'filler', or 'no-budget' shows).I can enjoy intellectual as well as tongue-in-cheek, or unintentional goofiness in programs that I watch, after a day of thinking alot, or reading complex information, I see nothing wrong with sitting down with something where I don't have to think too much while I watch it, other times, I will watch something that is more thought provoking(whether it is a TV show or movie).it sounds to me that as people age, they just want the shows they watch to be 'serious' & 'relevant' in some way.to me, it is just not criteria that I take into consideration when I am buying or watching something(to ask myself: 'is this or is this not thought provoking?')of course, it is all subjective to each individual and no two people are going to look at the same thing the same way!...I just thought that TV was meant to be enjoyed and entertaining(as well as informative).actually, it was all created to sell cigarettes, drugs & diapers(something I have had trouble believing when watching "The Outer Limits" original series, but it is true)!I really like what Rob Ray and Bert Greene said above about being able to enjoy things as much now as they did then(and the deficiencies in modern programming makes many hunger for the classics)!I am sure that nostalgia plays a part for many, many people, though and whether something lives up to a persons' expectations now versus then is highly personal.
as far as the "Batman" TV show goes, it is(in my opinion), still highly enjoyable, and very brilliant at times, I think less-so in the 2nd season(although, there are still very good episodes), but at times(depending on the writing), it can be absolutely awful....and the 3rd season is almost (actually) like an entirely different TV show.in all, it is still a great, fun show!
these days, I am enjoying "The Invaders", which I never really got to see in my
earlier days and am enjoying all of "Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea",
even the 3rd season, which I think is vastly improved because of a lack of
commercials(I used to dread this season, partly because the commercials
made it a chore to sit through them).
I also enjoy very 'tongue-in'cheek' shows like "Honey West" & "Burke's
Law", as well as "Hawaiian Eye" & "77 Sunset Strip"(& "The Wild Wild West"-what a terrific show, I like it even more now than back then!)...fantastic guest stars and familiar faces on all of these and so many '60's shows!!
I think that it is nice to be able to enjoy a variety of different styles from the intelligent to the humorous to the imaginative.
....but don't get me started on those with canned laughter!
great comments from all and a really terrific post!!!
:star: