Any handgun owners? Help, I gotta pick one... (1 Viewer)

[Philip_G]

Phillip - Not at all. I have an ex-GF with a Browning HP and she loves it. I can't shoot with her too often or I'll start getting the bug to buy one, too.

hehee the highpower is one of my all time favorites, especially the older ones. I don't know why, other than they just feel right I guess. Some better sites, a bar-sto 38 super barrel, trigger job, and you're in business

 

[Aaron Copeland]

I have a Kimber .45 (1911 type) that I've had no problems with, but the only other handgun I have is a Glock .40 so I don't really have a lot of experience with various brands.
Anyway, you can see a pic of my gun here:
Link Removed

 

[Roland Wandinger]

I'd pass on the Ruger and get the SIG because I don't see the point in .22LR... but how am I to talk I have a S&W 629 44 Magnum revolver.

Btw. has anybody any thoughts on the WALTER P-99?

 

[Brian Hepler]

[Btw. has anybody any thoughts on the WALTER P-99?]
Several. Which ones do you want?
I've shot one a few times and it has a lot going for it. The decocker on the top of the frame is pretty nifty. It points very well and the adjustable grip is a definite plus. It's not overly large, so if you do have a CCW permit, it is not a bear to conceal. It's available in .40 or 9mm, so if you have a favorite caliber you've got some options. I've never had to clean one, so I don't know how complex it is.
On the other hand... Smith & Wesson has a license to import/manufacture these and the buzz around the web sites I frequent say the S&W ones are unreliable upon occasion. There are numerous ways to tell if you have a P99 made overseas, but it seems like an awful lot of hassle.
One amusing item: The lady with the HighPower tried a P99 in .40cal while we were shopping. It kicked hard enough that she tightened up her grip and her left thumb hit the magazine release during the next recoil. She spun the mag out onto the range with three rounds still in it!
My largest beef with the P99 is the double-then-single action trigger, much like certain Sigs and Beretta 92. But I've done most of my shooting with Glocks, so I'm used to a light trigger that is always consistent. But I find myself struggling on the first shot and then jerking on the subsequent shots. It's something I could overcome with training, but why?
In short: it's a great gun if you get a reliable one. It would require me to make some changes in my training techniques, otherwise I would probably pick one up.

 

[Roland Wandinger]

On the other hand... Smith & Wesson has a license to import/manufacture these and the buzz around the web sites
I frequent say the S&W ones are unreliable upon occasion. There are numerous ways to tell if you have a P99 made
overseas, but it seems like an awful lot of hassle.

I wasn't aware that S&W are manufacturing these for the north american market. If I buy one here (Switzerland) I'd get a German version.

I'm not that much of a pistol person I have a small collection of rifles and only the S&W 629 revolver.

I'm looking into getting an automatic though. The P-99 is looking interesting as are the Glocks which are quite a bit cheaper as are the SIGs. HKs are nice too but rather expansive.

 

[Brian Hepler]

I'm sorry Roland, I made the stereotypical Amercian assumption and assumed that you were in the USA. My apologies. In your case, I would have no reservations about getting a Walther.
Glocks, Sigs, Beretta, Walther, H&K, Steyr... these are all good brands. Several analogies to Home Theater equipment can be made. Klipsch or B&W? Yamaha or Onkyo? Price vs features and let's not forget that indefinable sense of quality that is impossible to quantify. Again, find what's best for you (and in all fairness to Walther, the replacable grips goes a long way to making their product comfortable for a lot of people!)
Of course, now is the time to trot out my Brian Hepler Patented Guns & Cars Analogy (tm).
Glocks are like Dodge Vipers. Simple, featureless, relatively cheap for the performance and capable of incredible performance. But not very refined and they will kill you if you get distracted with them.
Berettas (92 & 96s) are like BMWs. Comfortable, sophisticated and surprisingly good performers. It also seems like everyone has one...
Sigs are like Porsches. Expensive, full of features, but well-made and excellent performers. Hard to beat and coveted by many.
H&Ks are Ferraris. 'nuff said.

 

[Bill Harada]

In addition you may wish to consider a Python from Colt, a superbly crafted and smooth .357 wheelgun via which you can train with .38 wadcutters.

I've always wanted a Colt Python (watched too much Starsky and Hutch when I was a kid). Whenever I went gun shopping I would always ask to see one, but could never bring myself to "pull the trigger" (sorry for the pun) and actually spend that much money. Now they list at over $1500 and one gun store owner told me that they're hard to get now. They are beautiful, though, with an action that's smooth as glass right out of the box.

As for shooting specials in magnums, I've always shyed away from that practice since the shorter round tends to gum up the cylinder with lube/lead fouling. You have to be really diligent in cleaning them (the cylinders) or else full length magnum rounds will no longer chamber. I would load "light" magnum rounds (in my case 44sp loads in a 44mag cases). Of couse, if you don't reload then this is not an option. The other downside to this practice is that if your range has a "no-magnum" policy (my local one has such a policy on its indoor range) you're out of luck as you will not be able to convince the rangemaster that your magnum shells only have a special load.

Bill

 

[Roland Wandinger]

I'm sorry Roland, I made the stereotypical Amercian assumption and assumed that you were in the USA. My apologies.

Ohh... no harm done... after all how many countries are there were a gun enthusiast can (legally) amass a sizable collection of hand guns and rifles?
I might go for the Walter although they are 20-30% more expansive than SIGs or Glocks.

 

[Ted Lee]

bill - thx for that info. it sounds like that can occur with self-made bullets. that is something that i would NEVER do for my home defense. can that happen with store bought ammno?

 

[Eve T]

I have a Colt Magnum carry 357 revolver chambered for 6 rounds of 357 action. I have always loved the look and feel of a nice heavy revolver.
I also have a little 25 with a white pearl handle. I keep that in my little drawer next to the front door. The revolver sleeps with me.

 

[Philip_G]

As for shooting specials in magnums, I've always shyed away from that practice since the shorter round tends to gum up the cylinder with lube/lead fouling. You have to be really diligent in cleaning them (the cylinders) or else full length magnum rounds will no longer chamber.

never had a problem with that. Had an old old colt trouper that ate a lot of special rounds, never a single problem.

if my range had a no mag policy I'd move on to another. I've been to some that allowed .454 casull and had no problems with a full auto MP5 (not that they should.. it's only 9mm afterall)

 

[Brian Hepler]

bill - thx for that info. it sounds like that can occur with self-made bullets. that is something that i would NEVER do for my home defense. can that happen with store bought ammno?

Hrm... how to answer...
Yes, it can, but that is a heavily qualified "yes". Modern factory ammunition undergoes rigorous sampling & testing as part of the quality control process. These are the standard techniques taught in any industrial engineering school and they are designed to accurately judge the quality of a mass-produced item. That said, you can always end up with the odd round that slips through the process and gives you a "squib load" (what Bill was describing). It doesn't happen very often.
It doesn't happen often with handloads, either. The difference is really which you trust more: A respected manufacturer such as Winchester who makes literally billions of rounds of ammunition each year with professional equipment and sampling techniques... or your skills as a reloader, where you watch every round being assembled and you rely on your own skills and experience.

 

[Philip_G]

It doesn't happen often with handloads, either. The difference is really which you trust more: A respected manufacturer such as Winchester who makes literally billions of rounds of ammunition each year with professional equipment and sampling techniques... or your skills as a reloader, where you watch every round being assembled and you rely on your own skills and experience.

but federal or winchester test how many boxes of ammo out of a lot? a few? none? a hundred? who knows.
most handloaders put much more effort into each round, and each one is exactly the same. The nature of most powders you just can't get a consistant throw out of a measure, for example. So for rifle cases I throw each one light then trickle the last few grains into a digital scale, so each is exact, mas production can't produce that kind of consistency. The difference is a half inch group vs. over an inch for my .270, there are other advantages like the head spacing... at least some of the big guys are offering some better bullets now, it's been like what, 5 years since they started offering the nosler partition in some of the federal loads?
also you can't get some of the specialty loads, like.. I'm a fan of the 65gr sierra in my 243, you can get 3400fps out of it and it's fun

 

[Phill O]

I like the Sig 239 in the 40 cal. I just tried the
HK USP in the 40 cal this weekend. I'll keep my Sig.
I am leaning towards a 1911. I used to shoot it when
I was a M60 Tanker in the Army (the M16 won't fit well in a tank). It still feels good in the hand.

P.S. I held the new Beretta .22 in the gun shop this weekend. I din't like it. It just felt "funny" to me.
The guy behind the counter said that everyone who has
held it in his shop didn't like it.

 

[Joe Szott]

I would take the 357 as it is an all around good gun and you can fire either 38 or 357 shells at your local range.

As far as home defense goes, the only thing I would ever use is a pump-action shotgun (I own a 12 guage). Don't even load your handgun when it is in your home. Couple reasons for this:

* A handgun can easily propel a bullet through a wall or two and hit someone in another room. It's a small consolation if you shoot a robber and the bullet travels through into the next room and kills your child.

* A 357 is even worse, you could conceivably nail someone in another house. They also tend to turn walls, timber, and anything else into shrapnel. Those things have penetration power like mad.

* It's much harder for a young child to accidentally shoot themselves with a shotgun. A loaded handgun in a house full of kids is a recipe for disaster.

* Anyone who breaks into your house and doesn't run when they hear the 'click' of the shotgun pump is either crazy or stupid, and should be killed either way as you know they are not right in the head. For this reason, you can even keep it unloaded (not recommended) as the 'click' is usually way more than enough to frighten a person away.

* It's a lot harder to judge how far or from what angle shotgun injuries were made. A dead burglar can't sue or prosecute you either, if you catch my drift.

For the record, I own a .40 Berreta for range shooting and a Remington 12-gauge for home defense.

 

[Brian Hepler]

but federal or winchester test how many boxes of ammo out of a lot? a few? none? a hundred? who knows.

As I said, industry standard sampling techniques. And as much precision as you can get from handloading, you can't get the consistency of mass produced ammunition.
I have a shooting buddy who handloads (actually, I have several). He had some .45 cal stuff that he was running through his HK USP, and they were kicking like a mule. This guy has been handloading for more years than I've been shooting. The problem? His handloads were screwed up because the zero on his digital scale was off. He was running almost double charges in those rounds.
Look, I'm all for handloading. It has several benefits and as soon as I get a house of my own with some room, I'm going to buy a press and the tools and start loading my own. As you said, oddball calibers and especially rifle ammunition are perfect for handloading. You pointed out many of the benefits of handloading.
But...
When it is my butt on the line and I'm using my pistol to keep that butt intact, I'm going with factory ammo.
Besides, this is really a moot point. The question was whether or not squibs can happen with factory ammo or is it just handloads. The answer is yes. The answer is also "it happens extremely rarely."
Edited to add: Joe makes a good case for shotguns and home defense. Be aware that shotguns have their drawbacks as well. They require two hands to operate, so opening doors and flicking light switches decreases your ability to fight. Going through doors is harder and you have less capacity in the weapon. God forbid you are carrying your infant in one hand and trying to use a shotgun at the same time.
This is not to knock on shotguns for defense. Just be aware that there are trade-offs for everything.

 

[Bill Harada]

Philip_G,
Maybe the composition of bullet lube has improved over the years then (or do you only shoot jacketed bullets?). My old M29 would take too much effort to clean out the lead fouling and bullet lube after a couple hundred special rounds. If I slacked off at all in the cleaning, a full magnum round would be a b*tch to seat fully in the chamber. And forget about trying to fire specials and magnums in the same shooting session. And the range with the no-magnum policy is an old municipal run facility. And that policy only applies to the indoor range.
As for home defense, I'd go with a handgun with Glazer-type fragmenting rounds. But I'm not an advocate of trying to stalk a would-be intruder inside the house. I think it's better to try and hole up somewhere and call the police. If the intruder comes to you then you're in a much better defensive position to protect youself and your family.
As for the debate over commercial vs handloads, I don't think the likelyhood of getting a squib round in a commercial box is very high. The big benefit of handloading is economic. If you shoot competively you'd spend a fortune shooting only commercial rounds (we're talking thousands of rounds a week). Another benefit is being able to custom loads to your particular weapon. I used to have a S&W M29 that could hold 1" groups (standing, two hand grip at a 25' range) with one particular target load that you could only handload (5.5 gr Bullseye with a 240 gr CSWC in a 44mag case). Talk about living out the "Dirty Harry" fantasy at the range .

 

[Danny R]

Can someone tell me what sort of gun is shown here? The movie is named Glock_300. I see no such weapon on Glock's homepage and it goes against the normal naming conventions as well, so does this mean its a modified Glock 30? If it was modified somehow (I didn't think any glock pistols could go full automatic as shown here), any ideas what was done?
Rock and Roll

 

[Craig Robertson]

it's a Glock of some kind, can't see it well enough to tell which model. it has been modified for full auto, lawfully or unlawfully.

 

[Brian Hepler]

It's a Glock 18. Hard to find in the US. Shoots 9mm and is the same size as the Glock 17. Full auto capability with a selector switch on the left side of the slide. It takes Glock 17 magazines, but the slide on a G18 will not fit on a G17 receiver. Naturally, it's covered under the National Firearm Act of 1934, so you need all sort of hoops to jump through and red tape to play with before you can get one.

It is a cool video, no?