Blu-ray Review A Few Words About A few words about...™ - The Broadway Melody -- in Blu-ray (3 Viewers)

[Robert Harris]

I don't think that's right. The color sequence produced with live sound was flawed and had to be reshot. Douglas Shearer had the bright idea to use the playback they already had with the reshot sequence, but it was still shot in color and released that way.

So you're suggesting that possibly (somewhere in Atlanta) resides two sets of over/under negatives.

I'll be on a train to search starting tomorrow.

There would also be paperwork on this in the Technicolor records.

 

[battlebeast]

This blu-ray makes a difficult film 100% more watchable.

I wish they could have put part of the Painted Doll number in the extras incorporating the 16 second surviving color fragment.

There is a clip on YouTube that shows what the number would have looked like in color. It’s not the original, but it’s worth a look.

 

[David Weicker]

Continuing with my specialized MGM Musicals covers, here is my custom for The Broadway Melody (along with my full collection

 

[maxfabien]

Nice collection. I have my copy in my collection of all the Best Picture Oscar winners (except for Coda). Got all the BR releases. Waiting for The Great Ziegfeld, The Life of Emile Zola. Olivier's Hamlet, and Around the World in 80 Days to be released on BR.

 

[RBBrittain]

Nice collection. I have my copy in my collection of all the Best Picture Oscar winners (except for Coda). Got all the BR releases. Waiting for The Great Ziegfeld, The Life of Emile Zola. Olivier's Hamlet, and Around the World in 80 Days to be released on BR.

Olivier's Hamlet was released on Blu-ray in at least the UK & Germany (Region B-locked) and Japan (Region A but long OOP). CODA was released on regular & 4K Blu-ray in Italy & Japan, though the Italian regular Blu-ray is Region B-locked and the Japanese 4K Blu-ray was apparently a limited release; the Italian 4K Blu-ray is best for importers because the 4K disc is region-free (as are all but a handful of out-of-spec 4K Blu-rays).

With the release of Emile Zola, that leaves only The Great Ziegfeld & Around the World in 80 Days as Best Pictures not on Blu-ray anywhere in the world. WAC probably would have no problem releasing Ziegfeld shortly. I understand both OCNs of 80 Days (both 65/70mm Todd-AO, one 24 fps & the other 30 fps) are faded; that would require a major restoration project. Also, transferring the 30 fps OCN to disc would be problematic; I suspect it will have to be 2160p60 on 4K Blu-ray (double each frame) & 1080i30 on regular Blu-ray (like Fox did with Oklahoma!, the only other 30 fps Todd-AO feature).

 

[RBBrittain]

Perhaps someone can resolve the quandary of The Broadway Melody's OAR: Both Blu-ray.com and IMDb claim it's 1.37:1, but Academy ratio generally didn't exist until 1932. Assuming the OCN was the Vitaphone version (the Movietone version would have been 1.2:1 AR, same as Cimarron), wouldn't it have been shot at the silent film AR of 1.33:1?

 

[battlebeast]

Olivier's Hamlet was released on Blu-ray in at least the UK & Germany (Region B-locked) and Japan (Region A but long OOP). CODA was released on regular & 4K Blu-ray in Italy & Japan, though the Italian regular Blu-ray is Region B-locked and the Japanese 4K Blu-ray was apparently a limited release; the Italian 4K Blu-ray is best for importers because the 4K disc is region-free (as are all but a handful of out-of-spec 4K Blu-rays).

With the release of Emile Zola, that leaves only The Great Ziegfeld & Around the World in 80 Days as Best Pictures not on Blu-ray anywhere in the world. WAC probably would have no problem releasing Ziegfeld shortly. I understand both OCNs of 80 Days (both 65/70mm Todd-AO, one 24 fps & the other 30 fps) are faded; that would require a major restoration project. Also, transferring the 30 fps OCN to disc would be problematic; I suspect it will have to be 2160p60 on 4K Blu-ray (double each frame) & 1080i30 on regular Blu-ray (like Fox did with Oklahoma!, the only other 30 fps Todd-AO feature).

As I understand, Mr. F has said they are "Combing the desert" for suitable materials to use for 80 DAYS. and with what WBMPI has been able to accomplish, 80 DAYS will look mind blowing.

 

[RBBrittain]

There is a clip on YouTube that shows what the number would have looked like in color. It’s not the original, but it’s worth a look.

There was a copy of the entire film posted to the Internet Archive; probably could get a copyright strike from WB, but the film is less than 18 months away from PD status so it might not be worth it. (Though not mentioned on the WAC release, its copyright was renewed so it's not yet PD.) Though it has generic MGM opening & closing title cards from that era (similar to some of the Our Gang shorts), most likely from a re-release, it appears to have the opening of "The Wedding of the Painted Doll" in two-strip Technicolor; I assume that came from the surviving 16-second snippet, though I could be wrong.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Perhaps someone can resolve the quandary of The Broadway Melody's OAR: Both Blu-ray.com and IMDb claim it's 1.37:1, but Academy ratio generally didn't exist until 1932. Assuming the OCN was the Vitaphone version (the Movietone version would have been 1.2:1 AR, same as Cimarron), wouldn't it have been shot at the silent film AR of 1.33:1?

The Broadway Melody ratio is 1.2:1. 1.37

 

[Robert Crawford]

The Broadway Melody ratio is 1.2:1.

My mistake, I just popped in my Blu-ray and the Blu-ray is 1.37 ratio.

 

[RBBrittain]

My mistake, I just popped in my Blu-ray and the Blu-ray is 1.37 ratio.

I assume mine is as well (I'm not experienced enough to tell the difference between 1.33:1 and 1.37:1), but my point was that almost certainly cannot be its OAR. (There may have been a few tests at 1.37:1 in 1929, but the Academy didn't make it the standard AR until 1932.) It may be the AR of the best surviving elements, but the OCN was almost certainly either 1.33:1 if Vitaphone (as right now appears most likely) or 1.2:1 if Movietone.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I assume mine is as well (I'm not experienced enough to tell the difference between 1.33:1 and 1.37:1), but my point was that almost certainly cannot be its OAR. (There may have been a few tests at 1.37:1 in 1929, but the Academy didn't make it the standard AR until 1932.) It may be the AR of the best surviving elements, but the OCN was almost certainly either 1.33:1 if Vitaphone (as right now appears most likely) or 1.2:1 if Movietone.

The 2008 DVD is 1.33 and I compared it to this July 25, 2023 Blu-ray. Warner doesn't screw up OAR, not like Criterion has done a few times. I trust George Feltenstein!

Some comments from RAH regarding the film elements used for this Blu-ray:

As to the history of the elements, while it survived the fire, a last attempt for asset protection occurred about twenty years ago, when several reels were found to have major decomp problems, and were unusable.

The source for the restoration was a preservation fine grain struck in 1965, from the OCN prior to decomp, as well as a dupe neg struck from that safety fine grain, which had also suffered damage.

There is a squeezing of some early stock footage shots, and I've not been able to determine the cause. It is noted that there was about 25 seconds missing from 35mm elements, that had to be derived from a 16 dupe neg created in the '40s.

 

[MartinP.]

I met George Feltenstein a couple times. (Before the turn of the century.) He's a great guy.

 

[maxfabien]

Olivier's Hamlet was released on Blu-ray in at least the UK & Germany (Region B-locked) and Japan (Region A but long OOP). CODA was released on regular & 4K Blu-ray in Italy & Japan, though the Italian regular Blu-ray is Region B-locked and the Japanese 4K Blu-ray was apparently a limited release; the Italian 4K Blu-ray is best for importers because the 4K disc is region-free (as are all but a handful of out-of-spec 4K Blu-rays).

With the release of Emile Zola, that leaves only The Great Ziegfeld & Around the World in 80 Days as Best Pictures not on Blu-ray anywhere in the world. WAC probably would have no problem releasing Ziegfeld shortly. I understand both OCNs of 80 Days (both 65/70mm Todd-AO, one 24 fps & the other 30 fps) are faded; that would require a major restoration project. Also, transferring the 30 fps OCN to disc would be problematic; I suspect it will have to be 2160p60 on 4K Blu-ray (double each frame) & 1080i30 on regular Blu-ray (like Fox did with Oklahoma!, the only other 30 fps Todd-AO feature).

I'm aware of the Blu-ray releases in other countries. Of course I'm referring to releases in the U.S. Pardon my ignorance, but why are there Blu-ray releases in other countries but not U.S.? Surely there's a market for it.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I'm aware of the Blu-ray releases in other countries. Of course I'm referring to releases in the U.S. Pardon my ignorance, but why are there Blu-ray releases in other countries but not U.S.? Surely there's a market for it.

That's a question that should be answered and discussed in a more appropriate thread besides this review thread for The Broadway Melody.

 

[maxfabien]

That's a question that should be answered and discussed in a more appropriate thread besides this review thread for The Broadway Melody.

You're right. Sorry, going off on a tangent.

 

[JoshZ]

I assume mine is as well (I'm not experienced enough to tell the difference between 1.33:1 and 1.37:1),

I don't have the disc, but when I pull up one of the screenshots at b-d(dot)com and crop out the pillarbox bars in a photo editing program, the picture is indeed left with an aspect ratio of 1.37:1.

 

[Mark-P]

Perhaps someone can resolve the quandary of The Broadway Melody's OAR: Both Blu-ray.com and IMDb claim it's 1.37:1, but Academy ratio generally didn't exist until 1932. Assuming the OCN was the Vitaphone version (the Movietone version would have been 1.2:1 AR, same as Cimarron), wouldn't it have been shot at the silent film AR of 1.33:1?

I think the answer may lie in this bit of information from the original post:

The source for the restoration was a preservation fine grain struck in 1965, from the OCN prior to decomp, as well as a dupe neg struck from that safety fine grain, which had also suffered damage.

The fine grain from 1965 may have been hard-matted to 1.37:1 and there would be no way for Warner to reclaim any of the picture information which would have been present for the aspect ratios used in 1929. Just a thought. I seriously doubt Warner would intentionally have over-cropped the image considering that they are preserving OAR in so many other releases.

 

[jayembee]

I assume mine is as well (I'm not experienced enough to tell the difference between 1.33:1 and 1.37:1), but my point was that almost certainly cannot be its OAR. (There may have been a few tests at 1.37:1 in 1929, but the Academy didn't make it the standard AR until 1932.) It may be the AR of the best surviving elements, but the OCN was almost certainly either 1.33:1 if Vitaphone (as right now appears most likely) or 1.2:1 if Movietone.

It's easy for me to tell the difference. My TV is just the right size, and the support feet are in just the right spots, that if the sides of the image are just "inside" the span of the feet, it's 1.33:1, and if they just outside the span of the feet, it's 1.37:1.

 

[Robert Harris]

I met George Feltenstein a couple times. (Before the turn of the century.) He's a great guy.

Among the Best!