A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Big Sleep (1946) -- in Blu-ray (9 Viewers)

[Will Krupp]

Well, your Oppo definitely plays 24fps back from DVD and I'm not sure which Panasonic model you have but, I'm pretty sure the models since the vt50 are 24fps compatible.

I did a quick comparison between the two myself. They're different transfers to start with so a one to one comparison isn't really possible since not all things are equal. The newer transfer is darker than the one on the DVD, which isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself since the DVD is a tad too bright and with a hazy, middling contrast, but here the image looks lazy and downright murky at times. I only saw the first few scenes but I see a significant difference between the two. I'm getting interlaced lines everywhere (check out Martha Vicker's profile right after she falls into Bogart's arms and Norris the butler's mouth when he talks.) In other places the lines come and go (as you would expect) and it has the effect of muddying the image and making it look less focused than the one on DVD. Characters who are any distance away from the camera (think the General when we first meet him) often have their features obscured by interlaced lines when they speak. Movement is jerkier in the newer transfer (most noticeable when Marlowe and the butler cross the Sternwood reception hall and the camera follows them with a panning shot, pans always being difficult for 3:2 pulldown) and it appears less "natural" and, to my eye, more "digitzed" as a whole.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Well, your Oppo definitely plays 24fps back from DVD and I'm not sure which Panasonic model you have but, I'm pretty sure the models since the vt50 are 24fps compatible.

I did a quick comparison between the two myself. They're different transfers to start with so a one to one comparison isn't really possible since not all things are equal. The newer transfer is darker than the one on the DVD, which isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself since the DVD is a tad too bright and with a hazy, middling contrast, but here the image looks lazy and downright murky at times. I only saw the first few scenes but I see a significant difference between the two. I'm getting interlaced lines everywhere (check out Martha Vicker's profile right after she falls into Bogart's arms and Norris the butler's mouth when he talks.) In other places the lines come and go (as you would expect) and it has the effect of muddying the image and making it look less focused than the one on DVD. Characters who are any distance away from the camera (think the General when we first meet him) often have their features obscured by interlaced lines when they speak. Movement is jerkier in the newer transfer (most noticeable when Marlowe and the butler cross the Sternwood reception hall and the camera follows them with a panning shot, pans always being difficult for 3:2 pulldown) and it appears less "natural" and, to my eye, more "digitzed" as a whole.

Yes, I have that Panny VT 65" model and a 60" Samsung 8500 model hooked up to Oppo BD players that can play 24fps playback. I'll try out those scenes during this weekend.

 

[Race Bannon]

Watched my copy of this release tonight. I've seen the film twice before.

Beautifully filmed, acted, and dialog'd -- but for the life of me I just can't follow the plot of this movie, and I have trouble paying attention.

 

[larryKR]

I have no problem following the plot although I've probably watched THE BIG SLEEP a dozen times over the years. It's pretty much explained in the movie except for who killed the Sternwood chauffeur. Joe Brody an employee of Geiger who was attempting to continue the blackmailing of the Sternwood family, would be the most logical culprit but he claims to be innocent. Suicide is possible, but then it is revealed that the chauffeur's car had the hand throttle cranked to full on as the car crashes through the peer into the water, so that makes suicide less likely.

 

[Keith Cobby]

Warner Archive will not despatch to the UK so having to patiently wait for mine from a third party distributor.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Yes, I have that Panny VT 65" model and a 60" Samsung 8500 model hooked up to Oppo BD players that can play 24fps playback. I'll try out those scenes during this weekend.

Will,

I have to agree with you that the DVD has better PQ than the 480i presentation on the Blu-ray. I tried to spend an afternoon comparing the original version between the two discs, but got caught up in watching the DVD in its entirety. With that said, I did enough comparisons of certain scenes to notice the Blu-ray's 480i presentation wasn't as good as the DVD release.

 

[Robin9]

I have no problem following the plot although I've probably watched THE BIG SLEEP a dozen times over the years. It's pretty much explained in the movie except for who killed the Sternwood chauffeur. Joe Brody an employee of Geiger who was attempting to continue the blackmailing of the Sternwood family, would be the most logical culprit but he claims to be innocent. Suicide is possible, but then it is revealed that the chauffeur's car had the hand throttle cranked to full on as the car crashes through the peer into the water, so that makes suicide less likely.

Your guess is correct. Owen, the Sternwood's chauffeur, kills Geiger and takes the photograph. Joe Brody, who was watching the house, follows the car and by some means takes the picture from Owen, kills him and then drives the car into the sea to make it look like an accident. Carl, Geiger's boyfriend, believing Joe Brody had killed Geiger, shoots Brody.

One reason many people become confused is that in the second scene in Geiger's bookshop, after Geiger has been killed, Carl and Brody seem to be in cahoots. So what happened to change Carl's mind?

 

[Alan Tully]

Warner Archive will not despatch to the UK so having to patiently wait for mine from a third party distributor.

It's never occurred to me to try & buy direct from Warner Archive. I've always bought from Amazon US, or usually from Amazon UK Marketplace (mostly All Your Music), mostly around £12-£15 delivered, the longer you wait the cheaper it is, but the pound is a bit low against the dollar right now.

 

[Will Krupp]

Your guess is correct. Owen, the Sternwood's chauffeur, kills Geiger and takes the photograph. Joe Brody, who was watching the house, follows the car and by some means takes the picture from Owen, kills him and then drives the car into the sea to make it look like an accident.

Does he kill him outright or does he just hit him over the head and drive off? I've read the book and seen both this and the 1978 version and somehow (don't ask me why at the moment because I'm getting them muddled) I was under the impression that he hits Owen when stealing the picture, concussing him, and that Owen drives off in a delirious state (dead man driving) and passes out, which causes him to go off the bridge. Brody didn't need to kill him as he had the picture already (plus another body ties the Sternwoods into it and risks the whole enterprise) and, if he did, its more likely he would have just shot him. Why take the time to set up the elaborate scheme?

 

[David Weicker]

This is a famous 'unanswered question'

Supposedly, while the film was being made, somebody went to the trouble of asking the author Raymond Chandler, and even he didn't know.

Both Hawks, like Chandler before him, eventually just said we don't care.

One of the complaints about the Mitchum remake is they actually tried to explain it, make it fit, and in the end, it was even more confusing.

IMO, sometimes thing just are. Not everything is related or explainable.

 

[larryKR]

David Weicker is correct, we should just enjoy the movie the way it is and not get to hung up on plot details.

But, there is a different take on who killed the chauffeur in the pre-release version. In the scene at the District Attorney's office, while Cronjager is talking to Marlowe, it is alluded that Lundgren is responsible for two murders. Which two? Obviously Brody for one, and do they mean Taylor the chauffeur for murder number two? Of course, I could have just misunderstood the entire scene!

 

[DavidJ]

Will,

I have to agree with you that the DVD has better PQ than the 480i presentation on the Blu-ray. I tried to spend an afternoon comparing the original version between the two discs, but got caught up in watching the DVD in its entirety. With that said, I did enough comparisons of certain scenes to notice the Blu-ray's 480i presentation wasn't as good as the DVD release.

That's a bummer. It stinks that I've got to hold on to both.

 

[Robert Crawford]

That's a bummer. It stinks that I've got to hold on to both.

Like I've done with countless other titles, I"m going to place the DVD in a paper sleeve then store it in the Blu-ray case with the Blu-ray disc. I'll ditch the DVD case into the trash.

 

[Will Krupp]

David Weicker is correct, we should just enjoy the movie the way it is and not get to hung up on plot details.

I have to respectfully disagree on that one. I think it's perfectly legitimate, especially in a forum like this, to discuss the mechanics of the plot if we so choose, especially since it has a reputation for being incomprehensible, which it isn't.

When the detective mentions the kid committing a "second killing," he's not blaming him for both. He's chastising Marlowe for keeping the first one (Gieger) quiet and allowing a second one (Brody) to happen at all. Had Marowe reported the first murder, then they would have picked Brody up for questioning and he wouldn't have been in his apartment to be murdered in the first (second?) place. Once the DA is alone with Marlowe, he mentions "two" killings as they aren't even discussing Taylor's death as a murder.

If Lundgren had killed Taylor he would have been aware that Brody didn't kill Gieger and wouldn't have had any reason to shoot Brody.

 

[Patrick Donahue]

To me the killings have always been a MacGuffin - no more solvable than what's in the Pulp Fiction briefcase...

 

[Robert Crawford]

I have to respectfully disagree on that one. I think it's perfectly legitimate, especially in a forum like this, to discuss the mechanics of the plot if we so choose, especially since it has a reputation for being incomprehensible, which it isn't.

You're right of course, but I don't think David is trying to tell us what we can or can not discuss on this forum.

 

[Tony Bensley]

Will,

I have to agree with you that the DVD has better PQ than the 480i presentation on the Blu-ray. I tried to spend an afternoon comparing the original version between the two discs, but got caught up in watching the DVD in its entirety. With that said, I did enough comparisons of certain scenes to notice the Blu-ray's 480i presentation wasn't as good as the DVD release.

This seems to be a common dilemma regarding DVD 480p vs. Blu-ray 480i portovers, I'm afraid! If everything else is equal, the DVD version wins pretty much every time. I realize the pre release versions of THE BIG SLEEP are from different transfers, but based on previous posts, they still appear to support the DVD 480p being superior to Blu-ray 480i argument!

As Will can also attest to, the many 480p extras from the previous THE WIZARD OF OZ DVD sets from the middle '00s that were ported over at 480i to the 70th and 75th Anniversary Collector's Blu-ray sets support this hypothesis all too well! IMO, in terms of PQ, SD Transfers are best served when issued on DVD, but sometimes conservation of space/total number of discs wins out!

In short, I'm keeping my DVDs from THE WIZARD OF OZ sets, and I totally get why fans of the 1945 pre release version of THE BIG SLEEP are choosing to hang onto their DVD version!

CHEERS!

 

[David Weicker]

Looks like I should chime in.

First, it was never my intention to stifle any conversation. (And even re-reading my post, I'm not sure how it could be interpreted that way).

I was merely relaying the anecdote that neither the original author nor the director knew who killed the chauffeur, but decided that the answer wasn't important to them.

As for the end of my post, I guess I was getting a bit philosophical. IMHO, the universe is filled with random, unexplained phenomena, and not every question has an answer. (Who killed the chauffeur? 42)

 

[Robin9]

This is a famous 'unanswered question'

Supposedly, while the film was being made, somebody went to the trouble of asking the author Raymond Chandler, and even he didn't know.

This is a famous story but there is less to it than meets the eye. There is no reason why a novelist should be able, off the top of his head, to recall all the plot details of a novel he wrote years previously.

Long ago I read in a magazine - I think it was The Velvet Light Trap - a transcript of an on-stage interview with Daniel Mainwaring who wrote under a pseudonym the novel Build My Gallows High which was the source for Out Of The Past. Mainwaring was asked about some detail in his novel, and he replied that it was years since he had last read Build My Gallows High and he wasn't sure.

 

[Robin9]

Does he kill him outright or does he just hit him over the head and drive off? I've read the book and seen both this and the 1978 version and somehow (don't ask me why at the moment because I'm getting them muddled) I was under the impression that he hits Owen when stealing the picture, concussing him, and that Owen drives off in a delirious state (dead man driving) and passes out, which causes him to go off the bridge. Brody didn't need to kill him as he had the picture already (plus another body ties the Sternwoods into it and risks the whole enterprise) and, if he did, its more likely he would have just shot him. Why take the time to set up the elaborate scheme?

The details are never made clear. In the film the basic outline of events is provided in that brilliant scene where Marlowe questions Brody who continually turns his face away. I don't think the novel makes it any more clear. I'm going to re-read the novel in the next few days.