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Dave H

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"Overcooked bass of the BD"? Raiders has always been famous for adding a big bass hit every time Indy lands a punch. That's been completely removed from the Atmos remix, which has virtually no bass and compresses the dynamic range into a flat line. It sounds awful.

The 4K transfer also had all of the original film grain stripped out, artificial grain added back on top, and looks to be A.I. sharpened all over the place.

I fully understand and agree with the complaints about the color grading on the older Blu-ray, but the UHD looks really weird to my eye. I'm not a fan of it either.

The bass on the UHD BD leans a bit closer toward the DVD and LD. The bass on the BD is extremely cooked and there was never another home release that was anything like that.

Hm. I've not read of a single source where Raiders was de-grained and had artificial grain added along with AI sharpening (which didn't even exist for home video to my knowledge at the time this disc was mastered). The compression in a few moments could be a little tighter IMO. The disc was generally praised.
 
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TravisR

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Everyone has their personal likes and dislikes, but the comedic timing and delivery in Temple for me is pure joy to watch over and over.
"We... are... going... to... die!" is possibly the funniest moment in the series.

For what it's worth, I don't dislike Temple Of Doom, I just like the other IJ movies better.
 

jayembee

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For what it's worth, I don't dislike Temple Of Doom, I just like the other IJ movies better.

That's pretty much my feeling, as well. I really didn't like it at first. Seeing it theatrically made it feel too overwhelming with all the crap that it throws at you (the "rollercoaster" bit in the mine was just way too much). When I got the widescreen LD of it later, and watched it on TV, I didn't mind it so much.
 

BobO'Link

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Everyone has their personal likes and dislikes, but the comedic timing and delivery in Temple for me is pure joy to watch over and over. It's the icing on the cake to making Temple endlessly rewatchable.
You get a musical number, and amazing fight sequence in a nightclub, Indy trying to fly a plane (with reactions that are priceless). A flying raft ride, 2 icky meals (Capshaw nails both and her reactions to the first and "I had bugs for lunch" line in the second are classic comic deliveries).
Then a "Busby Berkley tribute" temple ceremony and the ultimate Indy ride on an underground mine car. Still not finished...a final masterpiece atop a real suspension bridge...with crocks swimming below...I'm ready right now! All this and Short Round too!
Raiders may have the rights to being the best film, and I think it is, but for nonstop action, cinematic fun and classic lines, nothing beats Temple for me!
However... it feels like every few minutes Capshaw's character is screaming yet again. It wears thin after the first couple of times and is the main reason I can barely stand to watch this one. Otherwise, it's pretty good.
 

Indy Guy

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However... it feels like every few minutes Capshaw's character is screaming yet again. It wears thin after the first couple of times and is the main reason I can barely stand to watch this one. Otherwise, it's pretty good.
I saw Capshaw as the avatar for all us normal folks confronted with unknown fears. Not everyone is a Captain Marvel superhero. I love the scene where Indy and Short Round are casually playing card and Capshaw is running around "screaming" like the world is collapsing. 90% of the audience is right there in her shoes. "It's the Jungle...Sweetheart!" Spielberg immediately turns the tables with Indy's over the top reaction to her calm dismissal of the snake...brilliant physical comedy! It's physical material Karen Allen as great as she is, could not pull off in Marion's character .
 

JoshZ

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The bass on the UHD BD leans a bit closer toward the DVD and LD. The bass on the BD is extremely cooked and there was never another home release that was anything like that.

Every time this movie's soundtrack gets remastered, they run it through another round of heavy noise reduction to remove hiss. It's been so filtered upon filtered upon filtered upon filtered over the years that there's practically no life left it in anymore. The current version sounds completely flat and deadened. It has no dynamic range, and I don't agree that it sounds like the LD.

Hm. I've not read of a single source where Raiders was de-grained and had artificial grain added along with AI sharpening (which didn't even exist for home video to my knowledge at the time this disc was mastered). The compression in a few moments could be a little tighter IMO. The disc was generally praised.

Well, I watched it recently, and that's what it looks like to me. I think some studios have been playing around with these tools for longer than they've admitted publicly. Lucasfilm and THX have always been at the forefront of this stuff.

This disc looks very weird, especially in projection. The photography in Raiders always had focal issues in some shots and scenes, and it looks like the disc authors (or algorithm) tried to "fix" that by selectively sharpening portions of the frame more than others.

The grain does not look natural to me at all. I have no doubt at all they stripped out all the grain, processed the hell out of the image, and then added fake grain back on top. That process was probably just not as well understood at the time of the disc's release as it is now.
 

dpippel

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I saw Capshaw as the avatar for all us normal folks confronted with unknown fears. Not everyone is a Captain Marvel superhero. I love the scene where Indy and Short Round are casually playing card and Capshaw is running around "screaming" like the world is collapsing. 90% of the audience is right there in her shoes. "It's the Jungle...Sweetheart!" Spielberg immediately turns the tables with Indy's over the top reaction to her calm dismissal of the snake...brilliant physical comedy! It's physical material Karen Allen as great as she is, could not pull off in Marion's character .
I'm glad you have more appreciation of Capshaw's performance than I do. For me, she's like nails on a chalkboard throughout most of the film. I consider her character to be one of Spielberg's big failures as a director.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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Every time this movie's soundtrack gets remastered, they run it through another round of heavy noise reduction to remove hiss. It's been so filtered upon filtered upon filtered upon filtered over the years that there's practically no life left it in anymore. The current version sounds completely flat and deadened. It has no dynamic range, and I don't agree that it sounds like the LD.

Well, I watched it recently, and that's what it looks like to me. I think some studios have been playing around with these tools for longer than they've admitted publicly. Lucasfilm and THX have always been at the forefront of this stuff.

This disc looks very weird, especially in projection. The photography in Raiders always had focal issues in some shots and scenes, and it looks like the disc authors (or algorithm) tried to "fix" that by selectively sharpening portions of the frame more than others.

The grain does not look natural to me at all. I have no doubt at all they stripped out all the grain, processed the hell out of the image, and then added fake grain back on top. That process was probably just not as well understood at the time of the disc's release as it is now.

I still haven't gotten around to actually watching my 4K of it, but that wouldn't surprise me at all given it's Paramount afterall. They are absolutely the worst (studio) w/ that sort of thing.

_Man_
 

Worth

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This disc looks very weird, especially in projection. The photography in Raiders always had focal issues in some shots and scenes, and it looks like the disc authors (or algorithm) tried to "fix" that by selectively sharpening portions of the frame more than others.

The grain does not look natural to me at all. I have no doubt at all they stripped out all the grain, processed the hell out of the image, and then added fake grain back on top. That process was probably just not as well understood at the time of the disc's release as it is now.
I've seen Raiders more than any other film - several times during its original release and at least once a year since - mostly in 35mm or 70mm. There's a huge amount of digital manipulation at work here. It's fairly subtle, but I doubt there's a single shot that hasn't been tweaked in some way.
 

Jonathan Perregaux

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Ah, the perils of Indiana Jones. I recently re-watched all five of these together. It was a bit of an uphill climb. Almost like I started with an enthusiastic sprint, scrambled up the hill for a few hours, then realized I forgot to pack granola bars and water while also realizing the hill itself was fake and on the verge of collapse. A few rockfalls to the knee later and I was done.

I do love these movies. I just wish they were better than I take them for.

I wonder if Raiders of the Lost Ark was really a just giant fluke of success. Or did its near-perfection merely settle like an Albatross around the neck of subsequent installments? The sequels, though sporadically entertaining, all seemed to fall short of greatness.

I will say the original triad of films in 4K UHD look pretty good now, especially since they took the time to recomposite ILM's dodgy 80's visual effects and touch up some nasty matte paintings. Revisionist? Maybe, but at least Indy isn't cracking a walkie-talkie instead of a bullwhip. Last Crusade comps always looked terrible because it attempted to put too many things against a pristine blue sky. I'm glad the bi-plane now shows its structural wires and other spindly parts.

I suddenly remembered my Charlemagne...

It was perhaps an issue of Starlog in the mid 80's that said George Lucas envisioned making six of these, audience willing. Well, they almost got there! All we need to round out the set would be Indiana Jones and the Holy Sponge (yes, that is a thing in the world of relics).
 

dpippel

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I wonder if Raiders of the Lost Ark was really a just giant fluke of success. Or did its near-perfection merely settle like an Albatross around the neck of subsequent installments?
This is 100% the case in my opinion. Raiders is such a great film in so many ways that the sequels had very little hope of ever matching it. These things are fleeting. Despite Lucas and Spielberg working together over the years on Indiana Jones, and a bunch of top-notch talent both in front of and behind the camera, they were never again able to capture the mojo they somehow distilled in the first movie. The Star Wars series somehow managed to catch lightning in a bottle a second time with Empire, but it was mostly mad luck I think, and then it all went downhill from there.
 

TravisR

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This is 100% the case in my opinion. Raiders is such a great film in so many ways that the sequels had very little hope of ever matching it.
Agreed. Raiders, Star Wars, Jaws, Back To The Future are all so perfectly entertaining that none of the sequels could be as good. There's no shame in that either.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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Agreed. Raiders, Star Wars, Jaws, Back To The Future are all so perfectly entertaining that none of the sequels could be as good. There's no shame in that either.

ESB was the only one amongst those.

Of course, other (extremely rare) exceptions would be Godfather 2, Aliens and T2 (though maybe not everyone loved the original Terminator before T2 came out, heh)... and of course, there are also at least the first couple Bond sequels that most would rate up there w/ Dr. No (or surpassing it)...

_Man_
 

Worth

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Lest we forget, Empire Strikes Back was widely disparaged when it came out, and we all have that friend who still insists that Terminator 2 is a crap sequel that "ruins" everything that was good in The Terminator (and probably has similar feelings about about Aliens).
I think it's very good, but to me, Terminator 2 isn't as good as the first one.
 

jayembee

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Of course, other (extremely rare) exceptions would be Godfather 2, Aliens and T2 (though maybe not everyone loved the original Terminator before T2 came out, heh)... and of course, there are also at least the first couple Bond sequels that most would rate up there w/ Dr. No (or surpassing it)...

And Mad Max 2 a.k.a. The Road Warrior.
 

JoshZ

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Was it really? I never got that memo, heh... but then again, the internet wasn't even thing at all for another buncha years (and I woulda been too young back then to have access anyway)...

Empire Strikes Back was the lowest-grossing of the original Star Wars trilogy. It was decried as a boring sequel "with no real ending" that only existed as a placeholder to set up Star Wars 3. It wasn't until years later that the film started to achieve any sort of critical or popular re-evaluation.

[Terminator 2]
I hadn't heard that either.

I get that some may prefer the original... same for Star Wars, but I've never heard ESB and T2 being dumped on at all though -- I've only ever heard of both being place at least close enough to the original in all my various circles...

Terminator 2 was of course a huge blockbuster hit and widely popular. However, a certain segment of fans continue to bemoan it (and all later sequels) as a betrayal of the first film for turning the story "kid friendly" and making the Terminator a good guy.
 

Wayne Klein

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I don't hate "DoD". It's a watchable movie.

But it lacks the charm of the prior 4.

It feels like an AI generated Indy movie.
I think that it makes up for the lack of charm by being a better movie. It’s more like what Spielberg used to make prior to Crystal Skull.
 

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