A Few Words About A few words about…™ Damn Yankees – in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[MartinP.]

- this nonsense about lip-syncing to the cast album is just that -

Yeah, who could possibly believe Tab Hunter--who was in it.

 

[haineshisway]

Yeah, who could possibly believe Tab Hunter--who was in it.

Because people don't always remember things correctly. You know that, right?

 

[Will Krupp]

Because people don't always remember things correctly. You know that, right?

Naturally.

I wasn't there. I've never met Tab Hunter and I have no skin in the game.

That being said, to dismiss Tab's very specific (and, one must assume, traumatic) memory of having to mime on set to Douglass' big Broadway voice on playback as mere "mis"-remembrance is something of a stretch.

The issue with trying to synch up the cast album and the movie is that the orchestrations are different and the cast album shortens some of the orchestrations during the dance breaks. Where the lyrics go out of synch between the two is at the edits between takes or, as in "Whatever Lola Wants," when there is non-singing business on screen. It goes out of synch a few frames at each break. If you'll notice, with the exception of the entire shot where Lola changes the Washington lyric for the Sampson lyric (which is some feat in the movie since she's only supposed to be 300 or so years old, by the way) I believe they are in synch for the length of each camera setup.

Anyway, as I said, I have no skin in this game and really have no definite idea as to what happened. I'm done arguing about it, it just seems a little odd to determine that his definite memory of it is total nonsense.

 

[John Skoda]

They then had to lay down the vocal tracks, according to Tab, "a capella, without a single note of music" using, one assumes (though he doesn't specifically say so), the filmed numbers as a guide.

He's remembering correctly, he just has the order a little wrong. Like all of us, I don't know for sure, but I think they must have pre-recorded the vocals to a piano/click track (which matches up to his memory of recording without the orchestra), then filmed the numbers, then added the orchestra later.

Doing it this way would be a lot simpler than trying to post-record the vocals to an already-filmed song, which would be like "looping" each song. You'd have to record line-by-line to get the sync right. I think if it had been done this way, Tab Hunter would have an indelible memory of the torture involved! They would have had to spend a day or two on EACH song to get it right.

Marni Nixon recorded much of WEST SIDE STORY this way, but being the pro she was, she could do this and have the final results sound really good.

 

[Will Krupp]

I think they must have pre-recorded the vocals to a piano/click track (which matches up to his memory of recording without the orchestra), then filmed the numbers, then added the orchestra later.

Yes, but where does Stephen Douglass enter into it? Tab's very specific memory is of singing BACK to Douglass' voice. It's the entire point of his story.

 

[John Skoda]

Yes, but where does Stephen Douglass enter into it? Tab's very specific memory is of singing BACK to Douglass' voice. It's the entire point of his story.

It could be Abbott made him rehearse to those tracks and Hunter is remembering rehearsals rather than actual filming.

 

[Joel Arndt]

Just finished watching this. I found most of the transfer great. The night scenes and Two Lost Souls are TOO dark - don't know why. But most of it is aces - the opticals are soft, of course, but everything else is fine - not as good as Pajama Game but better than it's ever looked on home video by a country mile. This is especially obvious in the opticals in Six Months Out of Every Year, which looks better than it has any right to. What's fascinating about the band being recorded overseas is that it still has that Warner Bros. Heindorf sound. And Joecaps is right - this nonsense about lip-syncing to the cast album is just that - if it were the case you'd be able to do exactly what Joe says and you can't. I'm quite certain they recorded the band to a click-track, sent the tapes back and shot to that OR they recorded to a clicked piano track.

Agreed about most of the transfer looking great. The colors pop on my screen. Best it's ever looked in home video.

Your comment about the orchestra having that similar Warner Bros. sound is interesting because that thought crossed my mind when I watched this, also. Of course, that I never would have thought of that if I hadn't read all the posts in this thread discussing that it had been recorded overseas.

 

[Mark B]

I had a chance to view this last night. The film is absolutely loaded with opticals so I would imagine it was a bit of a nightmare creating this master. Attention has been paid and they look pretty darn good. There were a few bits that seemed oversaturated but overall, this is a very pleasing Blu-Ray. I pulled out the soundtrack and cranked it in the car, and that's a decent quality disc as well. I haven't watched or listened to DAMN YANKEES in some time and it felt very fresh seeing a spanking new transfer, handled by quality folks.

 

[haineshisway]

Naturally.

I wasn't there. I've never met Tab Hunter and I have no skin in the game.

That being said, to dismiss Tab's very specific (and, one must assume, traumatic) memory of having to mime on set to Douglass' big Broadway voice on playback as mere "mis"-remembrance is something of a stretch.

The issue with trying to synch up the cast album and the movie is that the orchestrations are different and the cast album shortens some of the orchestrations during the dance breaks. Where the lyrics go out of synch between the two is at the edits between takes or, as in "Whatever Lola Wants," when there is non-singing business on screen. It goes out of synch a few frames at each break. If you'll notice, with the exception of the entire shot where Lola changes the Washington lyric for the Sampson lyric (which is some feat in the movie since she's only supposed to be 300 or so years old, by the way) I believe they are in synch for the length of each camera setup.

Anyway, as I said, I have no skin in this game and really have no definite idea as to what happened. I'm done arguing about it, it just seems a little odd to determine that his definite memory of it is total nonsense.

I wasn't actually responding to you, but to Martin B.

 

[haineshisway]

It could be Abbott made him rehearse to those tracks and Hunter is remembering rehearsals rather than actual filming.

That actually sounds plausible.

 

[Will Krupp]

I wasn't actually responding to you, but to Martin B.

I'm aware of that.

 

[haineshisway]

I'm aware of that.

Good, aware is good. I just thought his post was a little, well, sarcastic.

 

[Alan Tully]

I managed to snag a copy from eBay at a decent price. It should be interesting to watch this again after, is it...58 years!

 

[Richard Gallagher]

A bit of "Damn Yankees" trivia.

Although the film is based upon the Broadway musical of the same name, the musical is adapted from a novel called "The Year the Yankees Lost the Pennant" by Douglas Wallop, published in 1954. The title of the book is significant because the New York Yankees had won the American League pennant (and the World Series) each of the previous five years. The Washington baseball team, on the other hand, was routinely mocked as "First in war, first in peace, last in the American League." Ironically, the Yankees did not win the American League pennant in 1954, although it was not won by Washington.

Now for some rank speculation. Douglas Wallop was born in 1920. In 1927 the first volume of The Hardy Boys series, "The Tower Treasure," was published, which introduced the teen sleuths Frank and Joe Hardy. Joe Hardy, of course, is Tab Hunter's character in "Damn Yankees." But there is more. The devil character, played by Ray Walston, is Mr. Applegate. And what is the central plot of "The Tower Treasure?" Why, the search for the Applegate treasure, of course.

Did Douglas Wallop read The Hardy Boys while growing up and was thus inspired to name his principal characters Joe Hardy and Mr. Applegate? Maybe, maybe not. Wallop died in 1985 and apparently it never occurred to anyone to ask him.

 

[Robert Harris]

Confirming the following:

”Yes it's true. According to Tab because of a musicians strike he couldn't record [the vocals] with any musical accompaniment. From what I gather they played the original Broadway album of Damn Yankees with Tab in recording booth and Tab sang along to Stephen Douglass’ version (who was the original Joe Hardy on Broadway).
They then shipped Tab’s a cappella recording over to London where the scoring took place.”

 

[Will Krupp]

Confirming the following:

Well that's interesting because it presents an entirely new theory. According to your source, Tab said he recorded his vocals with Douglass in his ear in the recording booth, which I've never heard before. Between you and me, it doesn't make much sense to force an actor to lay down tracks with an actual voice in his ear but, again, I wasn't there and have no definite idea. If your source is someone close to Hunter, I have to defer.

For clarity's sake, this is what Tab says in the first edition of his 2005 autobiography TAB HUNTER CONFIDENTIAL:

Page 206

Singing was much harder. Not because of my old stage fright bugaboo -- I'd sung the Oscar nominated song 'April Love' live on the Academy Awards that year -- but for a more peculiar reason. Usually when shooting a musical, everyone lip-synchs the songs, which have been pre-recorded. Well, as we went into production, a musician's strike gripped Hollywood. I wasn't allowed to pre-record my songs. An original Damn Yankees cast album already existed, so we all worked from that. This proved to be a nightmare for me -- I had to sing to the disembodied voice of Stephen Douglass. The guy was haunting me! (It is, however, my voice in the finished film.)

When the twenty-eight day shoot concluded, standard procedure would have been to return to the recording studio to cut final versions of all the songs, accompanied by a full orchestra. But the strike was still dragging on. We were forced to record our vocal tracks a capella, without a single note of music. The film was then shipped to Rome, where an Italian orchestra recorded the music tracks, which were then married to the vocals back in Hollywood.

Not exactly the ideal conditions in which to make your big-screen musical debut, but by the time we wrapped, I honestly could say, despite my problems with George Abbott, that I loved being part of the Damn Yankees team.

 

[Robert Harris]

Well that's interesting because it presents an entirely new theory. According to your source, Tab said he recorded his vocals with Douglass in his ear in the recording booth, which I've never heard before. Between you and me, it doesn't make much sense to force an actor to lay down tracks with an actual voice in his ear but, again, I wasn't there and have no definite idea. If your source is someone close to Hunter, I have to defer.

For clarity's sake, this is what Tab says in the first edition of his 2005 autobiography TAB HUNTER CONFIDENTIAL:

Page 206

The source is unimpeachable. Allan Glasser, to whom Tab was married.

 

[Will Krupp]

The source is unimpeachable. Allan Glasser, to whom Tab was married.

You know, I had a FEELING it was! I don't know why but I just KNEW, somehow!

 

[Bill Fisher]

i think 1776 holds the record for most Bway performers moving directly to the film.

 

[B-ROLL]

i think 1776 holds the record for most Bway performers moving directly to the film.

That might have something to do with the director of the film ...