What's new
  • Announcing New Ownership at Home Theater Forum. Learn More

Will Krupp

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2003
Messages
3,824
Location
PA
Real Name
Will
Reserved seat is not a Roadshow. A Roadshow would have shown the film twice a day, not continous performances and the film would not been available in the suburbs. An overture was a feature of a Roadshow presentation.

I never said it was a road show. I was just putting forth a possible theory (that I didn't even agree with) as to why there might be a discrepancy in the running time.
 

Noel Aguirre

Supporter
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
1,467
Location
New York City
Real Name
noel
I vote for mistake. The May 21, 1982 New York Times review of the movie lists a running time of 2 hours, 6 minutes. Considering all of three of those initial Manhattan engagements (Loew's Astor Plaza, Loew's Orpheum, and Loew's 34th St. Showplace) were in 70mm and 6 track Dolby Stereo, I would think they would be the most complete.

View attachment 160977

Now, for the counter argument.....

Loew's Astor Plaza DID run reserved seating. The New York Daily News, in ITS review, lists a running time of 2 hours, 10 minutes. The overture on the Original Cast Recording of the Broadway show runs a little under 3 and a half minutes. It's entirely possible, I suppose, that an overture played during the reserved seat run at the Plaza, but I can't imagine it wouldn't have shown up on the 4K release if that was the case. I think it would also be unlikely that the overture was designed to play only at Loew's Astor Plaza and nowhere else. I still vote for mistake but I wanted to be fair and present both possibilities.
I saw it opening day at the fairly new Loews 34th st. No overture just a lousy movie.
2 hours and 10mins? No wonder it was so painful.
 

KPmusmag

Screenwriter
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
1,466
Location
Henderson, NV
Real Name
Kevin Parcher
When I saw Annie in 1982 in a first run theater in L.A., there was definitely no overture. The music under the titles is Aileen Quinn singing Tomorrow, which incredibly is not sung in the film itself, at least not as a solo for Annie. The movie has grown on me over the years, but in 1982, after having seen the stage show on Broadway twice and at the Shubert in L.A. and listening to the cast album numerous time, I was bewildered why they would take the biggest hit Broadway had seen since A Chorus LIne and changed so much about it. Why mess with what works? But, then, that happened with the movie of A Chorus Line also.
 

Noel Aguirre

Supporter
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
1,467
Location
New York City
Real Name
noel
When I saw Annie in 1982 in a first run theater in L.A., there was definitely no overture. The music under the titles is Aileen Quinn singing Tomorrow, which incredibly is not sung in the film itself, at least not as a solo for Annie. The movie has grown on me over the years, but in 1982, after having seen the stage show on Broadway twice and at the Shubert in L.A. and listening to the cast album numerous time, I was bewildered why they would take the biggest hit Broadway had seen since A Chorus LIne and changed so much about it. Why mess with what works? But, then, that happened with the movie of A Chorus Line also.
Well a Chorus Line I can understand because it’s all told in an audition format. But Annie had a linear story that was botched.
 

Nick*Z

Screenwriter
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
1,678
Location
Canada
Real Name
NICK
There are some shots in Annie that have never looked stellar in any home video format. The finale has some truly out-of-focus shots that have not been improved in the higher 4K resolution. Check out the moment when Finney and Quinn sing the line, "...and if tomorrow I'm an apple seller too, I don't need anything, anything but..." It's horrendously soft and blurry. Saw Annie in the theater in 82' but don't ask me to go by that experience. Can't remember if the shot was soft then or not. It is now, and was on VHS, on DVD, on standard Blu and now, the 4K.

Overall, enjoyed the upgrade much. Have finished watching all the movies in Vol. 3. The most consistent of the lot is As Good As It Gets (no surprise, as it's also the most recent of the lot here), followed by From Here To Eternity (which was a minor revelation in 4K) and To Sir With Love (that still looks slightly dull in its colors, but experiences a massive uptick in overall image sharpness and clarity over its Blu counterpart. The Last Picture Show - director's/theatrical cuts toggles from grain-rich imagery to certain inserts that just look grainy. There's a difference.

It Happened One Night was already solid on standard Blu and the image here gets a minor, but noteworthy uptick in overall quality, minus the shots derived from dupes and second generation elements. Hey, there's only so much you can do. The June Allyson/Jack Lemmon remake, also included here has not been given any love or consideration. Colors are muddy at best and overall color fidelity is poor. Aside: the movie is no great shakes either.
 

uncledougie

Premium
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
373
Real Name
Doug
When I saw Annie in 1982 in a first run theater in L.A., there was definitely no overture. The music under the titles is Aileen Quinn singing Tomorrow, which incredibly is not sung in the film itself, at least not as a solo for Annie…I was bewildered why they would take the biggest hit Broadway had seen since A Chorus LIne and changed so much about it….Why mess with what works?
Having read that Producer Ray Stark thought “Tomorrow” was corny, and supposing he had a leaden hand with all the ill advised deletions and mediocre new material, it’s a miracle he was able to wring as much as he did from the film version of FUNNY GIRL (family ties or no). Of course, without Streisand and a director with the skill and taste of William Wyler (and even accepting the reported turmoil between star and director, plus the show’s second act troubles inherent to the musical), that film wouldn’t have had the impact it did. Possibly Stark was more to blame for ANNIE’s weaknesses than Huston. But also reading that they scrapped an already expensively shot “Easy Street” production number and went back to the constricted staging seen in the final cut, it is another indication the wrong hands were controlling this project from the start.
 
Last edited:

Will Krupp

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2003
Messages
3,824
Location
PA
Real Name
Will
If its not over black, a card that says overture, or an absence of credits its not an overture. Simple as that.

Sorry, my posted was ill-worded. What I really meant to ask was, is the music underneath the credits something that could have been taken from the Broadway overture. I haven't seen the movie in years and couldn't remember, though Kevin Parcher answered that question for me. As I think about it, that deliciously infamous scene from Serial Mom should have given me a clue as THAT I do remember.
 
Last edited:

Nick*Z

Screenwriter
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
1,678
Location
Canada
Real Name
NICK
Not to take ANYTHING away from VV (which I love) but somebody's got to stand up for Best Little Whorehouse!
Absolutely LOVE The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas and would snatch up a Uni 4K remaster in a heartbeat. The Blu is just 'okay'. Some image flicker and wobble to contend with, and edge effects throughout. Would also wish for Uni to get around releasing the excised Burt Reynold's song, "Where The Stallions Run" which they included on the TV broadcast version, but never made it as an extra on the DVD or Blu-ray releases.

One other minor note to consider here - the original soundtrack on the Blu has been tweaked to push Parton's vocals to the front of the presentation while the ensemble singing gets tucked away as mere background. Wasn't always like this. Especially during Nothing Dirty Goin' On and its reprise that closes out the movie. This should have sounded immersive with all the 'whores' singing in unison. Their vocals all but disappear on the Blu. Ditto for the ensemble singing of the Watch Doggettes during the reprise of the Watchdog Report in the state capital. The singing voices can barely be heard on this encode. NOT CORRECT!!!!
 

Nick*Z

Screenwriter
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
1,678
Location
Canada
Real Name
NICK
But when Miss Hannigan came in on the elephant as now one of the good people, it ripped the bottom out of what little reality the film had.
Well, one could argue Hannigan's reformation came in the scene just prior when she realized how truly evil her own brother was and tried to stop him from killing our diminutive heroine on the B&O Bridge. Rooster walloping his sister unconscious and calling her a loser just prior to tearing off after Annie pretty much illustrated where Hannigan's loyalties lay. She may have been a truly vial disciplinarian with a jealous stream and greed to boot, but she was not a murderer.

So, some scruples. I'll grant you - not a lot.
But some. Some's better than none.
Rooster had none!
 

roxy1927

Screenwriter
Joined
Jul 10, 2018
Messages
1,671
Real Name
vincent parisi
I saw Annie in previews at the Alvin. I knew of no advance word positive or negative. It was just there with no preconceived notions whatsoever. I've tried watching the movie but it is an atrocity just like ACL. Huston really hated the material which is fine but then don't direct the film. But I guess with his drinking and gambling debts he had to. After seeing Louden on stage seeing Burnett in this film her reputation for me sank. What a terrible waste of a 4k slot. I mean there had to be another 100 better Columbia titles. The way classic movie musicals have been reduced to a dribble the fact that somebody chose this they had to have been out of their minds. How many 6 year olds have 4k players? The vhs is good enough for them. What a world what a world.
 

Jimbo.B

Agent
Joined
Dec 5, 2021
Messages
34
Real Name
Dimitrios
I’ve never liked anything about the Annie property. I hated it on Broadway (with the original cast), hated the movies—both of them—and I hated the TV adaptation. All that being said, I’ll still happy to see an excellent 4k available for those who love it.
 

Camper

Supporting Actor
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
839
Location
Florida
Real Name
David Dennis
The Atmos track is missing sound effects when Miss hanigan kicks Curry and Peters thru the "window" during Easy Street and when she a bit later walks into the wall.

Poor job.
 

B-ROLL

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
4,587
Real Name
Bryan
The Atmos track is missing sound effects when Miss hanigan kicks Curry and Peters thru the "window" during Easy Street and when she a bit later walks into the wall.

Poor job.
I'm sure the original ATMOS tracks were lost after a a media shelf fell over, killed someone and started a fire ... although there are rumo(u)rs they've actually be secreted to a secret location somewhere in the Amazon Rainforest ... ;) :D :rock:
:drum::dance:
 
Last edited:

Nick*Z

Screenwriter
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
1,678
Location
Canada
Real Name
NICK
There's no doubt about it. Annie is a movie you either love or hate with very little 'middle ground' if any. So, you don't sort'a like it, or sort'a hate it. You just do. Full stop. But hey, it really doesn't matter what side of the isle you skew. You're all never fully dressed without a smile!
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Forum Sponsors

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
353,130
Messages
5,008,758
Members
143,403
Latest member
the associate
Recent bookmarks
0
Top