A Few Words About A few words about...™ Vertigo -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[OliverK]

Oliver I fully understand what you are saying. I am just making a point that it was a big mistake not to let more people experience what VV was capable of. After seeing Vertigo in 70 MM I weep that virtually no other VV film got the chance to shine so well.

And I fully agree with you. It is the same with several Technirama movies that would have been suited very well for a 70mm roadshow release, The Vikings and The Big Country come to mind. There were some 70mm prints by the way of The Ten Commandments but I remember at least one story that a 70mm print was pointlessly blown up from some cropped 35mm scope(!) reduction elements, nothing like the procedure that was used for Vertigo.

 

[Robert Harris]

Many points being covered here. First, one of the main rationales for VVLA was that the exposed stock -- standard 35mm -- could be processed anywhere. Printing was a bit more complex, as it had to be performed on optical printers, which would encode fades, dissolves, etc. Although direct positive prints could be, and were made for a limited number of titles, actual VVLA projectors went to very few of only the largest venues. Reduction printing to Technicolor matrices for dye transfer printing enabled larger print runs in standard 35/4, creating prints with an extraordinarily grain-free image, with beautiful color and crisp contrast and resolution. The majority of VVLA productions were not epic in size, and generally did not demand a huge screen. There were, of course, some that were. While VVLA used only about 3/4 of the negative's real estate -- the top and bottom were not used -- Technicolor's Technirama (TLA) process did. Making use of the entire 1.50 aspect ratio and 8 perfs in width, it was designed specifically for large format conversion to 70mm via an unsqeezing of the anamorphic image, or with additional anamorphosis, reduction printing to standard 35mm scope prints, which were comparable to those created from 65mm originals. Something to keep in mind, is that "mass" printings of either VVLA, TLA, or 70mm would take months. Major 70mm releases, generally had a striking of between 25 and 100 large format prints. And another couple of hundred in 35mm. The manufacture of those prints would take months, as each, would be optically printed, either via A and B rolls or via auto-select. One of the reasons why processes like Warner Color appear as problematic as they do today, was the need to print to Eastman direct positive via contact printing, and the necessity to conform the negative to a single strand. With fades and dissolves cut in as dupes, optical printing could be avoided. As far as I know, very few 70mm prints were struck directly from VVLA originals. The only example of which I'm aware was a print of The Court Jester. All TLA productions taken to 70mm were struck from the OCNs, as were 65s. The only major print run from a VVLA original, of which I'm aware, was Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot, which began its run in Colonial Williamsburg in 1957, and runs today in 70mm, based on a 65mm dupe, optically enlarged from a digitally produced VVLA IP. Currently, funds are needed to return to the data files, and create a DCP. If anyone would like to assist, please contact me privately. The bottom line is that even VVLA, was not designed for mass direct positive printing, because of the time necessary. The intent was to create beautiful 35mm prints, via which a large format negative could be seen anywhere in the world via standard projection, and high quality optics - a high fidelity image. RAH

 

[Robert Harris]

One more point, as to Vertigo. Of the 120 or so films shot in VVLA, I doubt that more than a handful, would be taken to a special level by large format printing. Vertigo is one of them. The Searchers is another. North By Northwest, would not. RAH

 

[Steve Tannehill]

VVLA = ? VV = Vista Vision. LA = ?

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Steve Tannehill
VVLA = ?
VV = Vista Vision.
LA = ?

Sorry.
VVLA = VistaVision Large Aperture
TLA = Technirama Large Aperture
CS = CinemaScope
LA = Los Angeles

 

[OliverK]

One more point, as to Vertigo. Of the 120 or so films shot in VVLA, I doubt that more than a handful, would be taken to a special level by large format printing. Vertigo is one of them. The Searchers is another. North By Northwest, would not. RAH

I always thought that One Eyed Jacks would have been a candidate for a large format release, another one was Strategic Air Command (and indeed it was presented in a horizontal print) and then there are the epics like War and Peace and of course The Ten Commandments. To Catch a Thief might be another candidate but I haven't watched it for quite some time and never saw it projected. So a few come to mind, but not that many indeed. Not that it matters much in an age where Samsara gets a 4k only release - that should also do for VVLA movies that make it back to the big screen.

 

[bryan4999]

One more point, as to Vertigo. Of the 120 or so films shot in VVLA, I doubt that more than a handful, would be taken to a special level by large format printing. Vertigo is one of them. The Searchers is another. North By Northwest, would not. RAH

If I could ask - why would "North By Northwest" not qualify? It seems like some scenes, such as the crop dusting and Mt. Rushmore, would be spectacular.

 

[PaulDA]

My guess (and it is only a guess) is that there are not enough such shots in NBNW to make it worth the extra effort (and NBNW is my favourite Hitchcock film, along with being one of my 5 favourite films of all time, so anything to make it look even better would be fine by me).

 

[Moe Dickstein]

RAH, thank you for, as always, setting the record straight.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Are you absolutely sure that no optical or similar process existed ?? There was never any intention that a mass audience would see 65MM in large format either, but they did release them in select theatres equipped with 70MM for those who wanted to experience the film that way.

A high quality optical process for transferring 35mm to 70mm did not exist until 1964. Most films photographed in 65mm had a road show presentation exclusively in 70mm for some time (as much as a year) before 35mm reduction prints were made for general exhibition. They were always intended to be seen by a large audience (meaning more than just several hundred at a premiere screening) in 70mm. Doug

 

[OliverK]

A high quality optical process for transferring 35mm to 70mm did not exist until 1964.

I think you are referring to anamorphic 35mm productions like Taras Bulba? Of course the Super Technirama 70 format that was also derived from TLA elements was born earlier in the late 50ies with movies like Sleeping Beauty and Solomon and Sheba - the latter production already looked quite impressive in its 70mm incarnation as did its lead actress!

Most films photographed in 65mm had a road show presentation exclusively in 70mm for some time (as much as a year) before 35mm reduction prints were made for general exhibition. They were always intended to be seen by a large audience (meaning more than just several hundred at a premiere screening) in 70mm.

Those were the days...

 

[Robert Harris]

If I could ask - why would "North By Northwest" not qualify? It seems like some scenes, such as the crop dusting and Mt. Rushmore, would be spectacular.

My perception is that the matte shots may not hold up at full rez RAH

 

[Doctorossi]

My perception is that the matte shots may not hold up at full rez

To be fair to human visual acuity, Hitchcock's matte shots rarely hold up at any resolution.

 

[Keith Cobby]

I hope that the continuing interest in the VistaVision process will result in the release of some more of the higher profile titles. I cannot understand why High Society in particular has not yet been released and am hopeful for Gunfight at the OK Corral, The Court Jester, Artists & Models and Pardners. Olive are doing a good job with some of the lesser titles that have not previously been released on DVD.

 

[Douglas Monce]

To be fair to human visual acuity, Hitchcock's matte shots rarely hold up at any resolution.

I don't know, those matte shots of the house toward the end of the film are pretty amazing! Also the wide inside shot of the U. N. Lobby is also a matte painting. By the way Matthew Yuricich did most of the matte paintings for North by Northwest. Doug

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I don't know, those matte shots of the house toward the end of the film are pretty amazing! Also the wide inside shot of the U. N. Lobby is also a matte painting. By the way Matthew Yuricich did most of the matte paintings for North by Northwest.
Doug

As is the down shot of Mr. Grant leaving the UN, and a few others. They look quite pleasing reduction printed to 35 in dye transfer, as the image is just so slightly softened.
Part of the archival "do no harm," should also include doing one's best not to reveal what's behind the curtain, by using pre-print elements without proper thought and handling.
RAH

 

[Spencer Draper]

Magnificently! VistaVision 35/4 dye transfer prints among the finest standard 35mm prints ever produced.

Indeed. Seeing Trouble With Harry was one of the best projected images I've ever seen, showing off one of the best uses of color in cinema. Unbelievably gorgeous though it may have been from the 80's reissue. How many VV prints actually exist today?

Sorry. LA = Los Angeles

As is the down shot of Mr. Grant leaving the UN, and a few others. They look quite pleasing reduction printed to 35 in dye transfer, as the image is just so slightly softened. Part of the archival "do no harm," should also include doing one's best not to reveal what's behind the curtain, by using pre-print elements without proper thought and handling.

Very true. If you look consciously in N by NW then a number of the matte shots are obvious, especially the studio shots of Grant diving to the ground in the crop duster sequence. But who wants to look consciously at anything in such a playful film? If we are discussing Hitchcock and mattes, the Museum sequence from Torn Curtain must be mentioned. Stunning usage of mattes to essentially create an entire museum interior out of nothing.

 

[John Stockton]

Even though its full of matte shots, but I would love to see a large format of TEN COMMANDMENTS. The colors in that film are extraordinary.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by John Stockton
Even though its full of matte shots, but I would love to see a large format of TEN COMMANDMENTS. The colors in that film are extraordinary.

TTC would need an extraordinary amount of digital work to make it anywhere near a pleasurable experience in large format. It has only ever been viewed based upon 35mm elements.
RAH

 

[mark brown]

Wasn't 10 Commandments re-released in 1989 in 70mm 2.20:1 - Super VistaVision?