A Few Words About A few words about...™ Seven Brides for Seven Brothers -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[ahollis]

Thank goodness the composers and lyricists of today don't subject their audience to anything cringeworthy except on extremely rare occasion and certainly not as a matter of routine output. (hehe)

Today is today, yesterday was yesterday. It’s only apples and oranges. To embrace the past is to enjoy the past.

 

[Thomas T]

This movie has always been a mixed bag for me. On the one hand, I like the leads, the wonderful dancing, the story, the setting etc. On the other hand it has some of the most cringe worthy lyrics I have ever heard. “You mean men are larnin’ now to dance? Yes it came direct from Paris France”! I have ordered the Blu ray, but will shelve it under guilty pleasures to be watched when no one is around to laugh at it. Can you imagine me showing it to a class of high schoolers and the character called “Dorcas” arrives?

I've seen 7 Brides For 7 Brothers several times theatrically (no, not the original release, I'm not that old) with both ordinary folk, industry professionals (AMPAS) and sophisticated academics (university audience). And no one has ever laughed at the film. Laughed with it, oh yes, but never at it. And why high schoolers, why not fifth graders? I find your example of "cringe worthy" lyrics rather charming myself which only goes to prove that two people can look at anything whether it's a Picasso or an elephant yet see something totally different.

 

[JoshZ]

I think that goes to my earlier post about hearing "more" stomps and taps in the 2005 DVD (new mix and this one) than in the 2000 DVD (old mix). It has been stated that it was sourced from the same foley track as the 2000 (old mix) version but with better sound and fidelity due to some restoration efforts, also making it louder along the way as one would expect. So my supposition was that the old mix with less sound and fidelity, less clearly audible stomps and taps, was at that time for the 2000 DVD (old mix) revealing more exclusively the loudest or most prominently intended sounds on the track. Those sounds would logically be the stomps and taps that were very much on the beat because the majority of the dancers' taps are on the beat. Just as logically, the fewer extraneous foley sounds that match the feet of 2-3 dancers who were not precisely on the beat, stepping and tapping with the wrong foot and quickly correcting for it, coming in a tad late or a tad early were likely not heard much or at all in the older mix. We were just hearing the most prominently intended sounds because they were always the loudest, the most audible and always meant to be so.

I don't think that's it. In the part where the ladies lift their dresses, you can see that the music trails behind the action more than it did before. A visual cue on screen confirms that the music has been delayed compared to the prior mix.

 

[TJPC]

I think you way underestimate the ability and willingness of others in your circle to appreciate and find pleasure in watching this movie as you do, guilty or otherwise.

Seriously, if you have access to a classroom size group of young people and a means and excuse to screen it for them on decent equipment I strongly encourage you to do so. And I really envy you the opportunity you have to do it and to be there to share the experience! I am positive the vast majority of them will love it and the tiny percent of grumpy contrarians, if any, will likely only be projecting a negative reaction because, for whatever reason, they feel guilty about enjoying it.

I have been retired for 10 years. Before that time I taught English media which had a large movie component. I found through trial and error what worked and what didn’t. For instance, Chaplin was very popular but Buster Keaton bored them to distraction. They loved pre-code musicals like 42 street, but not a lot of MGM musicals of the 50s. Citizen Kane had them climbing the walls! Hitchcock was the most popular. When I showed Vertigo and had to stop 20 minutes from the end, a group rented the movie to see how it ended.

 

[Robin9]

Many musicals and non musicals reflect the attitudes in which they were written. Personally I watch a movie not wondering why people before my time have such outdated ideas. Look at part of the lyrics to "Isn't It Romantic" whose music without lyrics was heard in many Paramount pictures of the 30's and early 40's including " The Lady Eve". Written for Maurice Chevalier in 1932. I can enjoy the movie without having to agree with the sentiment of the song.

Isn't it romantic?
Soon I will have found some girl that I adore
Isn't it romantic?
While I sit around my love can scrub the floor
She'll kiss me every hour or she'll get the sack
And when I take a shower she can scrub my back
Isn't it romantic?
On a moonlight night she'll cook me onion soup
Kiddies are romantic
And if we don't fight we soon will have a troupe
We'll help the population
It's a duty that we owe to dear old France
Isn't it romance?
- Lorenz Hart & Richard Rodgers

That's Lorenz Hart's second chorus. The first chorus is conventional romantic light verse, and very good too. The comedic second chorus today is sung only by archivists like Michael Feinstein.

 

[Robert Harris]

I think that goes to my earlier post about hearing "more" stomps and taps in the 2005 DVD (new mix and this one) than in the 2000 DVD (old mix). It has been stated that it was sourced from the same foley track as the 2000 (old mix) version but with better sound and fidelity due to some restoration efforts, also making it louder along the way as one would expect. So my supposition was that the old mix with less sound and fidelity, less clearly audible stomps and taps, was at that time for the 2000 DVD (old mix) revealing more exclusively the loudest or most prominently intended sounds on the track. Those sounds would logically be the stomps and taps that were very much on the beat because the majority of the dancers' taps are on the beat. Just as logically, the fewer extraneous foley sounds that match the feet of 2-3 dancers who were not precisely on the beat, stepping and tapping with the wrong foot and quickly correcting for it, coming in a tad late or a tad early were likely not heard much or at all in the older mix. We were just hearing the most prominently intended sounds because they were always the loudest, the most audible and always meant to be so.

However, as I also posited earlier, once that foley track had been repaired and restored to some extent, the sound and fidelity brought back for the 2005 DVD (new mix), is it possible that equal weight and prominence was mistakenly given to ALL of the stomps and taps that were newly revealed, even the ones that were originally meant to be heard but heard more in the background to merely flesh out the sound of a larger group of people on the stage and match the feet of the few stray dancers who we can see on screen now were not precisely on the beat? I am wondering it that is where a mistake was made during the foley track restoration process back in 2005, in giving equal weight in terms of fidelity and volume to all of the tap sounds, even the ones not on the beat, and thereby muddying the audio waters, if you will, for that minute or so.

It would lean toward the creation of new Foley, in order to create differentiation.

Keep in mind that the original Foley did not survive. What existed c. 2004, was the fully combined fx track.

 

[obscurelabel]

I got those Houseman autobiographies from a library too. I wish now I'd gone out and bought them. I thought they were excellent, and now they're a collector's item, very hard to find and usually expensive..

Robin9, if you don't mind used, paperback, or later editions, it appears that there are a number of copies of each of Houseman's memoirs available from vendors on AbeBooks.com for less than $5 (there are also a few early, hardcover editions scattered in these searches):

Run-Through

Front & Center

Final Dress

 

[Will Krupp]

I can enjoy the movie without having to agree with the sentiment of the song.

Isn't it romantic?
Soon I will have found some girl that I adore
Isn't it romantic?
While I sit around my love can scrub the floor
She'll kiss me every hour or she'll get the sack
And when I take a shower she can scrub my back
Isn't it romantic?
On a moonlight night she'll cook me onion soup
Kiddies are romantic
And if we don't fight we soon will have a troupe
We'll help the population
It's a duty that we owe to dear old France
Isn't it romance?
- Lorenz Hart & Richard Rodgers

Heheh, in FAIRNESS Gary, I'm pretty sure that was "tongue in cheek" even then!!

 

[haineshisway]

Well, you'd think the tongue in cheek aspect of it would be obvious, just as obvious as selectively not including a clip of the first chorus.

 

[Noel Aguirre]

Absolutely loved this new transfer and the movie itself - the paint-by-numbers backdrops, the 3D-ish staging and camerawork. The wonderful songs and of course the dancing. No problem whatsoever with feet synching foley work. The avalanche sequence has always been a hghlight. One of my favorite releases so far this year.
And yes- bring on Li'l Abner!

 

[OliverK]

I've seen 7 Brides For 7 Brothers several times theatrically (no, not the original release, I'm not that old) with both ordinary folk, industry professionals (AMPAS) and sophisticated academics (university audience). And no one has ever laughed at the film. Laughed with it, oh yes, but never at it. And why high schoolers, why not fifth graders? I find your example of "cringe worthy" lyrics rather charming myself which only goes to prove that two people can look at anything whether it's a Picasso or an elephant yet see something totally different.

I saw a Blow-Up of Seven Brides for Seven Brothers at a 70mm festival and most people really loved it and yes, they loved with it, not at it. I had never watched it before at that point and that was a great first viewing with a big audience and on a big screen, one of my favourite musicals now.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Exactly. You want cringeworthy lyrics - look at any song written in the year 2018. I wouldn't dignify that swill by even calling it lyrics.

Really? Not only does no one challenge this statement but seven people like it as well?

 

[Robin9]

Really? Not only does no one challenge this statement but seven people like it as well?

Why don't you challenge it? Obviously you'll need to provide examples of good contemporary lyric writing. Traditionally Broadway was to best place to find good lyrics.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Why don't you challenge it? Obviously you'll need to provide examples of good contemporary lyric writing. Traditionally Broadway was to best place to find good lyrics.

Err, seems like the existence of my post "challenges it", though the idea shouldn't need to be "challenged" because it's so over the top in the first place.

If Haines had just said 'they don't write 'em like they used to", then the post would be fine.

But he claims that modern day lyrics are so bad that no one writes anything he deigns to call "lyrics" - a bizarre comment, because bad lyrics are still lyrics.

He claimed any song from the modern era is "swill". Really? And you're going to sympathize with that?

That's what bothered me more - the agreement that literally every lyric written nowadays is "swill!

 

[TravisR]

Err, seems like the existence of my post "challenges it", though the idea shouldn't need to be "challenged" because it's so over the top in the first place.

If Haines had just said 'they don't write 'em like they used to", then the post would be fine.

But he claims that modern day lyrics are so bad that no one writes anything he deigns to call "lyrics" - a bizarre comment, because bad lyrics are still lyrics.

He claimed any song from the modern era is "swill". Really? And you're going to sympathize with that?

That's what bothered me more - the agreement that literally every lyric written nowadays is "swill!

I knew that anyone that would say that won't be swayed by anything I have to say to the contrary so I didn't waste his or my time.

 

[titch]

Exactly. You want cringeworthy lyrics - look at any song written in the year 2018. I wouldn't dignify that swill by even calling it lyrics.

Ha! Fighting talk! Handbags at dawn! I suggest the director from The First Nudie Musical rushes right out to purchase Hippopotamus from Sparks. The songwriters Ronald D Mael and Russell C Mael write peerless lyrics. The album is from 2017, but still.

Sample "Missionary Position":
You might have positions you can recommend
But I don’t know if we’ll ever get to them
‘cause we feel alright, the stars are bright, the missionary position
You might pride yourself, you’re so Avant garde
But we're neoclassicists, I guess, at heart
Patronise all you like, we both like the missionary position

It’s a private matter as to frequency
But we both are smiling as you well can see
And it ain’t no joke, it ain’t baroque, it’s the missionary position

It’s a little retro and a bit passé
But you know you'll make her feel A-OK
And she feels alright, the stars are bright, the missionary position

 

[haineshisway]

Err, seems like the existence of my post "challenges it", though the idea shouldn't need to be "challenged" because it's so over the top in the first place.

If Haines had just said 'they don't write 'em like they used to", then the post would be fine.

But he claims that modern day lyrics are so bad that no one writes anything he deigns to call "lyrics" - a bizarre comment, because bad lyrics are still lyrics.

He claimed any song from the modern era is "swill". Really? And you're going to sympathize with that?

That's what bothered me more - the agreement that literally every lyric written nowadays is "swill!

I call this "The Over-the-Top Reaction Syndrome." Perhaps I should have been clearer - POP music lyrics today. Please do show me some examples of great lyric writing in pop lyrics today, although great is in the eye of the beholder. Obviously I was speaking for my very own self, but that seems to be lost on you. Did I really need to add an IMO? Since I was the one posting it I think that should have been obvious. And here's a novel thought: People "liked" the post and didn't "challenge" it because they agreed with it. Funny how that works. I don't even think much of most Broadway lyrics today, either, especially this year, but that's also a personal thing. I think what I meant was perfectly clear and everyone but you seems to have understood it. That's fine, too. In the year 2018 (yes, I was that specific) I find pop lyrics atrocious. Oh, well.

 

[haineshisway]

Ha! Fighting talk! Handbags at dawn! I suggest the director from The First Nudie Musical rushes right out to purchase Hippopotamus from Sparks. The songwriters Ronald D Mael and Russell C Mael write peerless lyrics. The album is from 2017, but still.

Sample "Missionary Position":
You might have positions you can recommend
But I don’t know if we’ll ever get to them
‘cause we feel alright, the stars are bright, the missionary position
You might pride yourself, you’re so Avant garde
But we're neoclassicists, I guess, at heart
Patronise all you like, we both like the missionary position

It’s a private matter as to frequency
But we both are smiling as you well can see
And it ain’t no joke, it ain’t baroque, it’s the missionary position

It’s a little retro and a bit passé
But you know you'll make her feel A-OK
And she feels alright, the stars are bright, the missionary position

Well, Cole Porter it ain't. I'm a classicist when it comes to lyrics, I'm afraid. The sentiment of the lyrics is something else

 

[haineshisway]

Here's a hit song lyric from right now:

Easy money
It's about to be a surgical summer
Chop the tops off the coupes
The cuatrocientos ochenta y ocho
The Spyder joint
And you know we gotta cut the heads off these snakes, right?
Watch the body drop

Drug dealin' aside, ghostwritin' aside
Let's have a heart-to-heart about your pride
Even though you're multi, I see that your soul don't look alive
The M's count different when Baby divides the pie, wait
Let's examine why
Your music for the past few years been angry and full of lies
I'll start it at the home front, "I'm on One"
Dennis Graham stay off the gram, bitch, I'm on one
You mention wedding ring like it's a bad thing
Your father walked away at five, hell of a dad thing
Marriage is somethin' that Sandi never had, Drake
How you a winner, but she keep comin' in last place?

It goes on - and on - and on - I'll take Wonderful, Wonderful Day any day or night of the week.

 

[Alan Tully]

I call this "The Over-the-Top Reaction Syndrome." Perhaps I should have been clearer - POP music lyrics today. Please do show me some examples of great lyric writing in pop lyrics today, although great is in the eye of the beholder.

Sparks 2017 album Hippopotamus. Brilliant, intelligent & witty lyrics in songs that tell a story or are poetic, although songwriting like this is VERY thin on the ground these days (I never pass up a chance push one of my favourite bands).