A Few Words About A few words about...™ Prometheus 3D-- in Blu-ray

Robert Crawford

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Originally Posted by Doctorossi /t/324523/a-few-words-about-prometheus-3d-in-blu-ray/30#post_3990400
I'm not talking about things that people do; I'm talking about logical fallacies that plots try to make us believe. Vis-a-vis his role in Alien, what Prometheus asks us to believe about the space jockey is just stupid. It has nothing to do with whether or not he forgot to clock out for lunch (although that might've made for a more interesting and believable story).
Perhaps he was stupid as every film asks us to forgive logic at times in their plotlines.
 

Doctorossi

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Robert Crawford said:
Perhaps he was stupid as every film asks us to forgive logic at times in their plotlines.
I'm not referring to what we were told he did, but to what we were told he is.
 

Doctorossi

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Jason_V said:
So I can say 2001 or Blade Runner are terrible films because the court of public and critical opinion tell me these are both ground breaking, wonderful films and that is okay?  In other words, because these films have been built up over years, the fact I don't particularly care for their languid paces or overly inflated egos (or storylines) makes them worse than Ghost Rider 2?  Really?
It all depends on what you wanted from them. If you go into them not expecting much from them and end up not liking them very much, you're not that disappointed, right? It fell on its face, but not from a great height. However, if you think Alien is a masterpiece and you're being asked to mentally tie a movie you didn't like to Alien, you're then holding that movie to a higher standard and are thus more disappointed by it. It fell off a cliff after climbing Mt. Alien.
Does that make sense to you?
 

Robert Crawford

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Originally Posted by Doctorossi /t/324523/a-few-words-about-prometheus-3d-in-blu-ray/30#post_3990404
I'm not referring to what we were told he did, but to what we were told he is.
Actually, you have to be more specific.
 

Robert Crawford

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Originally Posted by Doctorossi /t/324523/a-few-words-about-prometheus-3d-in-blu-ray/30#post_3990413
It all depends on what you wanted from them. If you go into them not expecting much from them and end up not liking them very much, you're not that disappointed, right? However, if you think Alien is a masterpiece and you're being asked to mentally tie a movie you didn't like to Alien, you're then holding that movie to a higher standard and are thus more disappointed by it.
Does that make sense to you?
Again, most people just want to be entertained and are not looking for the secret of life or even to poke holes in the plotline.
 

Doctorossi

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Robert Crawford said:
Again, most people just want to be entertained and are not looking for the secret of life or even to poke holes in the plotline.
And I'm glad that those people found another movie that they enjoy. I just want to be entertained, too, and when the plot is nonsensical, I lose investment in the characters and story and I'm not entertained.
I'm not looking to poke holes in the plotline, but I don't enjoy it when I fall through them.
 

Robert Crawford

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Originally Posted by Robert Crawford /t/324523/a-few-words-about-prometheus-3d-in-blu-ray/30#post_3990415
Actually, you have to be more specific.
Forget it as I'm done with this thread for a good while as I'm getting ready to leave in the next 16 hours to join my fellow HTF members in California.
 

Doctorossi

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Robert Crawford said:
Forget it as I'm done with this thread for a good while as I'm getting ready to leave in the next 16 hours to join my fellow HTF members in California.
Safe travels and have fun!
 

Jason_V

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Originally Posted by Doctorossi /t/324523/a-few-words-about-prometheus-3d-in-blu-ray/30#post_3990413
It all depends on what you wanted from them. If you go into them not expecting much from them and end up not liking them very much, you're not that disappointed, right? However, if you think Alien is a masterpiece and you're being asked to mentally tie a movie you didn't like to Alien, you're then holding that movie to a higher standard and are thus more disappointed by it.
Does that make sense to you?
Then I guess my question is this: is it actually fair to hold any movie up to a predecessor in a series? If you do that, even Aliens is a "terrible" film. Star Trek Nemesis is a terrible film not because it followed Insurrection (which was not good), but on its own merits. The villain was lackluster, the crew acted like buffoons (even outside of continuity), the battles "meh" and the entire production blaise. That in no way tainted the way I saw Trek 2009.

Prometheus, as part of the Alien universe, satisfied me on a level which didn't happen with Alien Resurrection or either of the terrible AvP movies. I enjoyed it for what it was, understand some of the criticisms, but also think people are poking the movie until it bleeds because it is part of the Alien series with Ridley Scott behind the camera. In other words, because they expected way too much from it.

To be honest, I never gave the engineer/space jockey a second thought from Alien. So to have this "answer" to what he was injected into canon doesn't get me going one way or the other. I had no notion Prometheus was going to be a great film. I hoped it was going to be and I anticipated it, but I've come to not expect much from any film.

I wanted both 2001 and Blade Runner to be transcendental for me because they are for so many other people. I wanted them to be movies I come back to time and again. Frankly, if I never watch either again, that would be AOK by me. And I know that is almost a sin in movie circles.
 

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Robert Crawford said:
Again, most people just want to be entertained and are not looking for the secret of life or even to poke holes in the plotline.
Love this post, well said sir.:)
 

Walter Kittel

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People working at their jobs everyday and do sheer stupid or absurd things all the time despite being properly trained and educated to know better than to do such unexplained acts.
No doubt, Robert. But most of those people don't go through a rigorous (one assumes) selection process to participate on an incredibly expensive and risky mission to explore another planetary system. My apologies for another 2001 post, but contrast the cool, competent professionalism of Dave Bowman and Frank Poole vs. the crew of the Prometheus. I know who I would have crewing my mission. For me personally, the idiocy of some of the situations really undermines the credibility of Prometheus.
- Walter.
 

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Robert Crawford said:
People working at their jobs everyday and do sheer stupid or absurd things all the time despite being properly trained and educated to know better than to do such unexplained acts.
Which works well in Office Space, but not appropriate to Prometheus. A space ship is a bit equivalent to our nuclear submarines. Processes have to be rigidly followed or the consequences can be lethal and extreme. Mistakes may occasionally happen but it's not because of sheet stupidity or absurdity. Sure they need to tell a story but the story was there WITHOUT needing to have the crew appear incompetent.
Edit: Walter beat me to it.
 

Robert Crawford

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Originally Posted by rich_d /t/324523/a-few-words-about-prometheus-3d-in-blu-ray/30#post_3990434
Which works well in Office Space, but not appropriate to Prometheus. A space ship is a bit equivalent to our nuclear submarines. Processes have to be rigidly followed or the consequences can be lethal and extreme. Mistakes may occasionally happen but it's not because of sheet stupidity or absurdity. Sure they need to tell a story but the story was there WITHOUT needing to have the crew appear incompetent.
Edit: Walter beat me to it.
You sure about that? As to Walter, a crew of 2 versus 17 is not a fair comparison, but I do understand the point being made about professionalism and the lack of it in the Prometheus crew. Anyhow, I'll bow out with that last comment.
 

rich_d

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Robert Crawford said:
Again, most people just want to be entertained and are not looking for the secret of life or even to poke holes in the plotline.
That may be true but 'most people' aren't on this forum ... 'most people' aren't even regularly going to the movie theatres ... so what's the point?
 

Doctorossi

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Jason_V said:
Then I guess my question is this: is it actually fair to hold any movie up to a predecessor in a series?
I think it's completely fair when the movie presents itself that way.
Jason_V said:
If you do that, even Aliens is a "terrible" film.
Well, I don't like Aliens anywhere near as much as I like Alien, but at least Aliens makes reasonable sense within the rules of the universe that Alien described. That's all I asked of Prometheus, but the latter film didn't deliver that for me.
Jason_V said:
To be honest, I never gave the engineer/space jockey a second thought from Alien. 
Nor did I and that's one of the reasons his appearance in Prometheus feels artificial and audience-pandering to me. What was an incidental throw-away in Alien is now made pivotally-important, simply because it was one of the few ostensible "questions" left open from the first film.
 

dpippel

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Robert Crawford said:
Again, most people just want to be entertained and are not looking for the secret of life or even to poke holes in the plotline.
Prometheus, however, is about that very thing - looking for the secret of life. It's the driving force behind the entire film. And I didn't go in looking to poke holes in the plot, find lapses in logic, or go out of my way to notice unbelievable character behavior. I just didn't like it when those things slapped me in the face. :D
As I've said though, we all have different tastes. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for the next. This film didn't work for me. I wish that weren't the case, because I *wanted* to like it.
 

rich_d

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Robert Crawford said:
You sure about that? 
Again, speaking only for the U.S. Navy's results, the results are exemplary. Even more so when you factor in just how many 'boats' have been in service over the years and how many days/weeks/months/years in use. It's really amazing. Navy personnel have two tracks - nuclear and non-nuclear and pay grades are higher for nuclear so they tend to get the best personnel trying for those slots. Additionally, there is not a chance in the world of someone getting any post on a submarine (nuclear or otherwise) that is critical to the operation without having worked their way up to those posts. That involves an amazing amount of training/supervision. Along the way, a Master Chief in the Navy will have had to support a person getting onto a nuclear boat and progressing on that boat. The length of time that submarines are deployed vary but typically the boat will be 3 or 6 months at sea. It's a 24/7 operation where your bunk is not your bunk but used by another when they are not on (shift) duty. The tight confinement alone makes it a situation that 'screw-ups' would never be tolerated even if the very real danger wasn't as apparent. Subs are scary things and this I can speak to first-hand.
 

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I saw the movie in theaters with lowered expectations and found it to be....interesting. It's visually breathtaking and reasonably entertaining. The problem I have with it (to echo other comments here) is how amazingly stupid all of the characters are. Unfortunately, I find character to be key to any successful film. I can forgive plotholes and leaps of logic, but I need the actions and motivations of characters to make sense in order for me to care. Noomi Rapace's character is probably the stupidest lead character I've witnessed in a film that takes itself this seriously. A far cry from Ripley, and good luck to Scott and the crew in building a franchise around her.
I imagine I'll revisit it some day, but I bought the BD largely for the always great Scott/de Lauzarika extras.
 

Doctorossi

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dpippel said:
What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for the next. This film didn't work for me. I wish that weren't the case, because I *wanted* to like it.
My feelings, precisely.
 

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An interesting thread for an interesting film.
I am a huge Ridley Scott fan, and have all of his movies in either DVD or BD formats. Alien (theatrical cut) and Blade Runner (final cut) are both wonderful films, but it is his Director's cut of Kingdom of Heaven that I place as his best - far, far more satisfying a watch than either the disappointing theatrical release of this movie, or the over-rated Gladiator
I saw Prometheus at the cinema on its first week - a movie I'd been looking forward to seeing for months. I came away disappointed, with more questions than answers and a plot that quite frankly became sillier the more I thought about it.
However, many people loved it and when the BD came out, it was bought on the day of release (3D version) - the logic being that perhaps I just wasnt in the right mood at the cinema to engage and appreciate what Mr Scott was trying to achieve.
I sat with the BD on the shelf for nearly a week before I felt ready to commit to watching it.
Glass of a decent red in hand, I donned the glasses and launched myself into the world of Prometheus.
As a visual experience I thought that it ranks close to the top of Mr Scott's body of work.
As a film,I think it is complete tosh with unbelievable characters in unbelievable situations behaving unbelievably - did someone senior forget to read the script before they spent the money?
This thread seems to represent a microcosm of the wider world opinion of Prometheus - either revered as an ambitious modern genre classic, or loathed as hodgepodge of unresolved ideas going nowhere.
The one movie I would compare it to wouldnt be 2001, but Danny Boyle's "Sunshine" - another movie with astonishingly ambitious visuals, but also destroyed by poor characterisation and a ridiculous script.
The only light at the end of the tunnel for me with Prometheus is that it was apparently written as a two-parter - if Ridley Scott is bankrolled to direct the second part it may finally take us to the Alien prequel that we all expected Part 1 to be.
 

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