480i Upconversion to 540p with Toshibas

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jim.Bennett, Jan 6, 2003.

  1. Jim.Bennett

    Jim.Bennett Extra

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    Hi all,

    As I am about to pull the trigger on a Toshiba purchase I have been researching the 42HDX82 pretty intensely over the past several weeks. Overall the feedback on the set is pretty positive except for the minor hiss problem from the speakers and the 480i upconversion to 540p issue.

    I ran across several threads talking about the Toshibas upconversion of 480i signals to 540p and how it tends to cause the loss of detail. I am wondering if anyone can shed some more light on this "issue" & how it affects real world viewing.

    Is this a significant flaw on the Toshiba set or just something that only the greatest of eyes will catch?

    Thanks in advance for any replies!

    Jim
     
  2. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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  3. Jim.Bennett

    Jim.Bennett Extra

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    Thanks for the enlightening info. You may have scared me away from this set altogether, but I am glad to have the information either way. I'm not totally convinced I will notice this problem while viewing actual source material rather than test patterns but now that I know what to look for I just might. Well, up until now this set had me (and more importantly- the wife) hooked. Right size, unit looks good, perfect depth/cabinet dimensions, great HD picture quality and viewing angle, DVI in, etc. Any other sets out there with similiar qualities (has to be very slim depth wise) but not the upconvert issue?
     
  4. David Lorenzo

    David Lorenzo Stunt Coordinator

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    Jim. Note that those pictures were taken from a HX model. Not the newer HDX models.

    Michael. Do you have any pictures from a HDX Toshiba. Are the newer sets any better with upconversion? I am also considering the exact same set. It had very good picture quality when I viewed it at Best Buy.

    Does the upconversion make the Toshibas inferior to all other comparitively priced RPTV's when watching DVDs?

    Edit: Michael. I just saw that there was an update to your initial article, but the model used is still not Toshiba's top of the line HDX series.
     
  5. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Since I don't get paid to spend my time doing this research stuff ... I do things when I have time available.

    The HDX is probably marginally better than the H72 images that you saw ... but once again, I find that it is variable even between the same model. So it really is hard to say that it got better or not.

    The banding is always there and the degradation is always there. Amount of degradation ... who knows.

    Just know that it is there and you still have to make up your own mind on how it affects your purchase decisions.

    Regards
     
  6. Jan Strnad

    Jan Strnad Screenwriter

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    Jim,
    See, this is exactly what bugs me about the upconversion issue: It's minor...really, really minor...and if you read Michael's article you'll see that, by far, most DVDs don't even contain a level of resolution that will reveal it.
    Now here you are, Jim, with a set you love, that your wife loves, with the form factor and features you want, and suddenly you feel that you have to jump ship because of what you've seen on some test patterns.
    Yeesh!
    Anyway, I have a Tosh 42H81, last year's model with worse upconversion than the current models. I took a snapshot of my screen showing what is considered to be a very demanding scene (Chapter 8 of Shakespeare in Love, the famous "Marlowe's beard" shot). You can see it here. If your browser shrinks pictures to fit your screen, be sure to enlarge the shot to full size or you'll get weird artifacts.
    I'd love it if someone would post a shot from a set that does not do the upconversion, so people could see how much (or how little) difference this issue makes in real world viewing.
    Jan
     
  7. David Lorenzo

    David Lorenzo Stunt Coordinator

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    Personally, I'm too much of a perfectionist to ever get the Toshiba knowing the issues it has. That being said, the new Toshibas look fantastic (picture quality) and I'm sure you would be happy with it and never feel you were missing anything.
     
  8. Ken Custodio

    Ken Custodio Second Unit

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    I agree with Jan, the upconversion issue isn't really an issue, unless you spend your life looking at test patterns instead of DVDs or HDTV. The Toshibas are great TV's. I have a 50h82, an entry level rptv, but I love it. Out of all of my HT equipment, this is the one piece of equipment I have no regrets or "I should of got this model instead" feelings.

    No disrespect to Michael TLV, I have found a lot of his articles and posts on message boards extremely useful but evertime someone asks about the 540p upconversion issue he points them to the article he wrote and it scares them away from buying the TV. I agree this one test pattern isn't favorable for the Toshiba upconversion, but I bet if you look hard enough you will find a test pattern that shows a weakness of every TV on the market.
     
  9. Jim.Bennett

    Jim.Bennett Extra

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    Well I just wanted to update you guys on what I decided to do. In the end I am going with the Toshiba for several reasons:

    1. The wife accepts it. Believe me, it took me several years of beating around the bush and looking at TVs to finally find a big screen that she can live with in our living room!
    2. The picture is awesome with HD signals, Toshiba has great stretch modes, and I really doubt I will notice the loss of detail.
    3. The cabinet dimensions are perfect for where I need to set to go.

    In the end, the Tosh has just about everything I want and the price is right. I let you guys know how it is when its delivered!
     
  10. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Congrats! [​IMG]
    Now, all you have to do is get the set delivered home safe and sound, let it settle into your home's climactic condition, turn it on and turn down the contrast, tweak it til perfection day after day for several weeks while holding your breath that it will survive the 100-hour break-in period, and then finally be able to kick back and enjoy home theater like it's meant to be all the while worrying about burn-in, crappy quality cable, MPEG artifacts, edge enhancement artifacts and all other such wonderful home theater distractions. [​IMG]
    Oh, BTW, congrats!!! [​IMG]
    _Man_
    PS: I recommend putting on LotR: Extended Edition, Disney's Dinosaur, Toy Story 2, What Dreams May Come, Braveheart and Matrix among many other DVDs ASAP to see that all the trouble and $$$ has been worth it. Don't even wait for everything to be all tweaked out! Just do it! [​IMG] Oh, I'd avoid using Lilo & Stitch and most other Disney animation DVDs for your initial use of the TV. They'll only make you worry that something's wrong w/ your TV. [​IMG]
     
  11. Babek

    Babek Stunt Coordinator

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    well i have 57hx81, and i must say that i'm totally content with it, it gives great picture with the toshiba colorstream progressive scan dvd player.
    it was well worth the 2300$ US.
     
  12. John McCutcheon

    John McCutcheon Auditioning

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    David,
    My being a perfectionist is the primary reason that I still don't own a wide screen HDTV. There just isn't a pecfect TV out there. For the last couple of years, I seem to always be waiting for something better. What set do you have?
     
  13. JackS

    JackS Supporting Actor

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    Just noted that One-Call has a few new models about to be intro'ed. Toshiba xx83 & xx93. It appears that spring and summer are the expected periods of availability.
     
  14. David Lorenzo

    David Lorenzo Stunt Coordinator

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    John.

    It is also the reason why I don't have one. Right now I'm using a 27" flat screen Toshiba. I tried 3 different sets because there were slight flaws in geometry. Like I said I am a perfectionist and extremely picky about video quality. I am saving up now for a DLP front projector.


    I just saw a Marantz VP-12S2 in action today and it was absolutely amazing. It is DLP HD2 based. It produced one of the most perfect images I've ever seen. The downfall of many DLP projectors is low contrast. Well I can say that this projector rivals CRT's with a ratio of 2600:1. Blacks were stunning. There is no rainbow effect either. So the technology that I want exists now. I just have to wait for it to penetrate the matket more and become more affordable. The Marantz retails for $12,000. I'm sure by this time next year the same level of performance will be available for less than half that price.

    When this technology becomes cheaply available in RPTV's I think they will become much more popular.

    I also saw the $9000 Toshiba LCOS RPTV today. It is the only 1080p set on the market. There's no way I would ever get it, even if the price were cut in half. There is a strange layer of sparkles that seems to coat the image. That alone is enough, but even without that it didn't impress me at all.

    Regards
     

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