2007-2008 MLB Hot Stove (1 Viewer)

[Kirk Tsai]

The Red Sox have a fantastic contract with Ortiz, per year until 2010 at $12.5 million per year, and a club option for 2011.

That said, "not good defensively?" More like a non-factor defensively. Even though traditionally defense has been studied less thoroughly than offense or pitching, there has been plenty of evidence on how crucial it nonetheless is. To disregard it is a mistake. Offensively, their current production is similar. But, I don't see Ortiz maintaining his production into his late 30s as A-Rod will. Guys his size--Mo Vaughn and Cecil Fielder, I'm looking at you--seem to decline (more like falling off a cliff) faster than a guy like A-Rod, who is a physical specimen. This is not to mention his advantage in terms of speed.

Disregarding emotion or irrational dislikes, I would think the vast majority of baseball fans would choose A-Rod over Ortiz as a baseball player.

 

[EricW]

i agree about the long term, but over the next 5 years (max), i think most would take Pappy over Arod.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Ortiz will go down as the greatest return for the money in the history of the game. He signed for 12.5 million per season back in 2003. I believe it was a 6 year contract. At the time he said he found his place and he would rather have the comfort of playing for a team and a city that he loves than to go for the big money. Truly refreshing and truly a wonderful guy for the team, the fans and the community. Not to mention his work in his native Dominican Republic.

You can keep A-Rod at 1/3 of what Boras wants. Boston already has its face of the franchise.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Not in the 9th inning, 2 out, bases loaded, in the 7th game of the World Series they wouldn't. Hell, I wouldn't take A-Rod if that situation was in the regular season. Ortiz will go down as the greatest clutch hitter of his era, if not in baseball history (he has the stats). A-Rod will go down as the guy who came to bat with 37 runners on base in the post season and knocked in none of them. His gaudy regular season stats will mean a lot to a team on the bubble or will put fannies in the seats for a lower tier team, but for perrenial playoff teams, he's a liability; an embarrassment on the field and if you believe the scuttlebut, a cancer in the clubhouse.

 

[Mike Frezon]

I think we need to quantify our terms (just to get this particular debate on even footing).

Based on Eric's question & Kirk's response, I think there are a couple of different issues being discussed.

One is: who do people consider a better all-around baseball player?

Another: which would people prefer to have on their team?

And yet a third: who would you prefer to see at-bat in the post-season or in a tough spot?

For me:

1.) A-Rod.
2.) Ortiz.
3.) Close...but edge to Ortiz.

 

[Kirk Tsai]

Of course, playoff performance is based on a very small sample size. A-Rod's recent subpar performance could easily turn around. When he was with Seattle, he was a big time performer; in a couple of series, including with the Yankees, he had over 1.200 OPS during the series. I believe he's unfairly under the microscope. There was some talk about the dismal performance of Derek Jeter during this postseason, but still, the majority of people rather focus on A-Rod's performance than Jeter's.

Re: next five years
If I were a GM, I would much rather have Ortiz's contract than A-Rod's. But that's not the same as saying who the better player is. As indicated in my previous post, I believe A-Rod is superior, because their offensive production is very close, but A-Rod has more to offer than just at the plate. And the truth is, despite Barry Bonds, Tony Gwynn and Roger Clemens, a player with the age north of 32 tends to slow down in the history of baseball. In that sense, I'm not so sure Ortiz's production in 2010 will still equal A-Rod's. I could see A-Rod hitting at the age of 36, but I would worry about Big Papi.

Re: big time performers
Just as I got carried away a little bit by Beckett's postseason performance, I would also say that Ortiz has a long way to coming close to The Babe's 10 World Series appearances of .326/.467/.744. Great performer Ortiz is, but the greatest performer he ain't.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Yep, some people are definitely shortchanging Arod and one day we will see him have a great postseason performance again. As far as Arod's contract demands, I won't demean any person's attempt to maximize his earnings potential. With that being said, I agree with the Yankee management's decision to pass on any further negotiations with him even if it causes the Yankees to take a step back next season.

 

[Shane Martin]

Ditto.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Robert: I think, although the Yanks now have a void at third base to fill, A-Rod did the team a favor by opting out of his contract. They will get better without him.

I'm surprised to read there was discussion about moving Cano to third. Apparently that is now not on the table.

And, Kirk: Nobody'll ever be better than the Babe.

 

[Shane Martin]

Yep, Lowell in Pinstripes

 

[Mike Frezon]

THAT'S not what I meant!

I figure even if the Sox offer a good 4 to 5 year deal, the Yanks will offer Lowell more money at six years (or something of the sort). Then it comes down to how much he means it about how much he likes playing in Boston!

 

[Shane Martin]

You mean like Johnny Damon?

 

[Robert Crawford]

Cano played third base in the minors and BA always thought he would eventually end up there as he got older and filled out more.

 

[Marvin]

That may be true but he said he's comfortable at second and doesn't want to switch. In any case, even if they move him, then they have a hole to fill at second.

 

[Robert Crawford]

That's a decision that the Yankee organization will have to make and if it comes to fruition then they will do so by helping Cano become comfortable with it. However, with that being said, Cano is more valuable to the Yankees as a second baseman so I would think Cashman will exhaust all other possibilities before considering a position change for Cano.





Crawdaddy

 

[Mike Frezon]

41-year old Greg Maddux (14-11 with a 4.14 ERA. 31 starts!) re-ups with the Padres for one-year, $10-million. Not a bad deal for him.

347 career victories. 4 Cy Youngs. 16 Gold Gloves (maybe #17 is coming).

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Schilling signs one year extension with Sox. Looks like he'll finish here. Good move by team and player.

Whoops, local news jumped the gun. I should have said "Reports say Schilling is about to sign one year extension."

 

[Brian Perry]

The Tribune is reporting that Kerry Wood might be offered the closer's role if he signs, and Mark Prior would have to agree to a club option for 2009 if he still wants to be a Cub.

Watch for Pettitte to sign with the Dodgers, after turning down the Yankees.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Stop believing everything you hear on ESPN about Torre being the pied pipper. Either Pettitte will play for the Yankees in 2008 or he's retired.

 

[Jason Seaver]

At least until something else happens.

Sure, right now, I think those are the two options he's considering. But if other organizations make him a good offer, he's got the right to change his mind.

I do think that the idea that players will follow Torre west is one without a lot of basis in reality, although to be fair, when players have signed with the Yankees in the past, a lot was made of Torre's active role in recruiting them. While that's probably just nice interview material, it certainly is something the Dodgers hoped they were getting when they signed the man.