2-channels Listening (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Gatie]

You said that it is a fallacy that "NO tower speaker can come close to producing the bass that a good sub can." You gave as your only "experience" your gershmans. You stated that your gershmans are rated to 24Hz - 3dB. Many subs are rated lower and flatter than this, including the ~$1000 SVS models tuned to be flat to 16Hz. Now you say you can "configure" your gershwins to magically rate flat to 16Hz -3dB, even though they are actually rated far above that (Note, in our conversation, we were only talking about the bass performance of dedicated subs vs. towers, not the relative merits of sub/sats vs. towers). Can you explain how you can "configure" your gershwins to be 16dB -3 when they are rated at 24Hz -3? I don't know what "strong and authoritative" measures at, but if it is measuring 16dB -3 out of a speaker that is only rated at 24Hz -3, there's some "strong and authoritative" mojo going on.

Note: This does not even begin to address the cancellation that occurs with very low bass from two sources that are not co-located - In summary, the lower the bass, the more opportunity for cancellation induced nulls from two bass sources as the sources become farther and farther apart (see the thread about the "second rear sub" for details).

Please know that I am not arguing that towers are not acceptable or sometime better for music reproduction. But that is not what was stated. Somene posted that no tower can compete with a dedicated sub when it comes to bass reproduction and you called it a fallacy. I consider it the truth, especially when price is considered (part of the competition, as far as I am concerned).

Edited for spelling.

 

[Kevin T]

i never said i could configure them to be flat at 16 Hz -3 dB. when you get caught up in the melodrama of "my specs are better than yours", all you're doing is creating a setup that is technically "better" on paper. it's the music that matters first and last. unless you've heard every speaker tower speaker rated at 20 Hz or below, you cannot say that "NO tower speaker can come close to producing the bass that a good sub can." that being said, the tower speakers in this price range cost far more than bookshelf / sub combo. however, price was never mentioned. only that there is no tower speaker in the existence of the world that can give equal performance. that's a fairly broad and generalized statement, much akin to the titanic being unsinkable. just because i cannot afford something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. i can't afford a ferrari, but i know they're real.

kevin t

 

[Jeff Gatie]

And yet it is quite easy to prove that there is a tower speaker that competes with a good sub in bass production - all anyone has to do is name it and the specs. I will submit that there *may* be extremely expensive towers that may troll to 16Hz with some authority; but saying that there may be a speaker costing 10-20x the price of the very affordable subs that will do 16Hz with ease is proof of a "fallacy" is guilding the lily at best. A fallacy connotes deception or deceit. It is hardly deceitful to say there is no car that will outrun a stock Suzuki Hyabusa 0-60 - submitting the fact there are top fuel dragster "cars" that will do it does not make the statement a "fallacy".

 

[BrianWoerndle]

I don't want to get into the war, so here is my personal opinion based on MY experience.

I much prefer my Studio 60s to my 20's and sub, which in the end cost about the same. Everybody uses the argument that you can get a better bookshelf speaker for the money, but forget that part of the budget goes to the sub (and stands).

I used to love my 20s and sub for music. I had them crossed at 60hz and they gave me a very nice soundstage. But then I got my 60s. I was amazed at how much deeper the soundstage became. The 20s provided great width, but the 60s extended the soundstage deeper and farther out into the room. They may give up a little bit in low bass, but I don't miss it at all. My 60s, which are only a moderate $1500 pair of speakers, go down to 30hz at -3db. Very little music goes lower. Paired with a cheap pair of monoblocks they can play just as loud as my 20s and sub.

 

[dan-0]

Previously I had a set of NHT Superones up front. I've upgraded(?) to the NHT Supertwo tower which basicaly is the Superones on top and an extra woofer on the bottom. Either way I use a sub.

I perfer towers.