10 Dead in Minn. Shootings, 6 at School (1 Viewer)

[Drew Bethel]

Oh ok. I don't see any mass stabbing incidents...do you?

 

[Jeff D Han]

Guns don't walk around pulling their own triggers,
maladjusted people pull that trigger.

I agree with others who say that we are finished
as a society. Sorry to say or think that, but it's
true. When somebody feels frustrated, or has run out
or answers, their solution is to hurt or let out
their rage on other innocent people. Pathetic.

 

[Paul_Medenwaldt]

go to google and google 'stabbing' and then click the News link. I'd be the first one to outlaw knives after just reading 1 page.

Paul

 

[Ken Chan]

It might be more like 300 that actually count, since most states have laws that pre-empt local ones. And ignoring the number of those that are federal, since each state gets to have its own laws, that means on average there are 6 per state to cover design, manufacture, sale, purchase, and possession. When you break down the numbers, that doesn't seem like a lot, does it?

 

[Dave Poehlman]

Setting gun control aside... I'm sure this is going to boil down to a troubled kid who was bullied and picked on and pushed to the breaking point.

We all use our own childhoods as a reference point, but being married to a schoolteacher I hear horrible stories of malicious kids torturing others... in 5th grade!

Too many parents are expecting the schools and television to raise their children for them.


IBTL, by the way!

 

[Greg Morse]

Drew, he took the gun from a cop and then went on a spree killing. So, what you are saying is we should remove guns from the hands of police officers, because obviously they are the problem here. Within the context of this tragedy, how would any sort of gun control whatsoever have prevented this kid from stealing a cop's gun, killing him and then a bunch of innocent people? You can make the case that we need better mental health care in this country, but I don't see how you can politicize this particular incident into a gun control issue.

 

[Nick Sievers]

Thankfully over here, we do (to a reasonable extent). After reading Andrew's post, which I wholeheartedly
agree with our guns laws seem to be about the same as well.

Truly sad to be reading about this type of thing often.

 

[Holadem]

That is SOOOO 1776. Brits? Pfah... Nowadays the average american is terrified first and foremost by gay people and arabs. Heck as a black guy, I resent losing the #1 spot to these other groups .

--
H

 

[Garrett Lundy]

Gun Control aside, This act was premeditated, not random.

 

[ThomasC]

1 person killed 8 people in a country populated by at least 293,027,571 people. It's still sad to hear about these things, but I'd say on a whole that we're doing pretty well for ourselves.

 

[Jeff Peake]

 

[RobertR]

So get a sex change operation, convert, and become a black Muslim lesbian.

 

[Jeff Peake]

I saw a guy who had that same phrase written on a sandwich board strapped to his chest the other day downtown.

 

[andrew markworthy]

A cute argument, but fallacious. With the exception of guns, the UK has the same weapons available as the USA (well, okay, substitute cricket bat for baseball bat - no self-respecting Brit murderer would use something looking like a little girl's rounders bat ) - so why is our murder rate so much lower? The simple fact is that it is far easier to kill with a gun - there is no physical contact with the victim.

 

[Greg Morse]

now that is the question. If you are attempting to link guns as the causal effect for the murder rate though, that is a fallacious argument. Historically, the US/UK murder rate has been over 5:1. This held true 10 years ago, this held true 100 years ago. Since the UK handgun ban though we see an interesting trend, that historical has been thrown out of whack. The 5:1 rate is closer to 3:1 and narrowing every year. In the cities of record (London and NY), the ratios are slightly under 3:1 (2.4/100000 in London to 6.9/100000). 15 years ago, there were 3 times as many homicides in NYC than there were 2 years ago. In that time, gun control in the US has relaxed overall. 15 years ago, the murder rate was much lower in London by than it was 2 years ago (really don't feel like finding the number right now, but trust me on this one).

One thing to keep in mind is the methodology of tracking murders in the US is different than in the UK. In the US, charges are tracked whereas in the UK convictions are tracked. Meaning, I shoot an intruder in my house in the US, am charged but then the charges are either dropped or I am found not guilty the number is still reported as a murder in the US, whereas in the UK it is removed from the number.

Here are the relevant number of murder trends between 1996-2001 (US numbers from FBI, UK number from British Home Office)

1996 Murders Population Rate/1000
UK 679 52,010,000 0.013
US 19,645 265,228,572 0.074

2001
UK 850 52,041,916 0.016
US 16,037 285,317,559 0.056

rate of change over that time
UK +25.1%
US -24.1%

Now the question is not why does the UK have such a lower murder rate as the US, but why are the numbers trending in opposite directions. Personally I think it has more to do with crime management, as evidenced by Rudy in NYC as opposed to the travesty in the UK that is Tony Martin.

 

[Garrett Lundy]

Now compare the US and UK to Columbia!

 

[CharlesD]

The security gaurd at Columbine High School was armed.

 

[MarkHastings]

It's funny that if this kid was influenced by video games, everyone would be up in arms about banning video games, yet this kid was into Hitler, so why is there no call for banning "History" in schools?

 

[Paul_Medenwaldt]

This quote, I was referring to the shootings at Red Lake MN, not Columbine.

Paul

 

[CharlesD]

I know. Why do you think an armed gaurd would have made a difference in this case when one was no help in the Columbine case?