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Miles Davis, BMG, Digitial Remastering


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#1 of 30 OFFLINE   Ten_Smith

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Posted October 03 2002 - 03:05 AM

I'm thinking of joinging BMG and getting some Miles CDs. I was consider the following: Miles Davis All StarsWalkin' Miles Davis QuintetRelaxin' With Miles Looking on Amazon I see they are available in a 20-bit digitially re-mastered form. How can I tell if the ones at BMG are the same? I've written an e-mail to their customer no-service about this but that prospect seems dim. Anyone know how long ago the digitally remastered version came out? Was there an earlier version? All help appreciated.

#2 of 30 OFFLINE   Mike Broadman

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Posted October 03 2002 - 03:24 AM

[quote] Was there an earlier version? [quote]

Yes. These albums came out in the 80s or early 90s. They were re-mastered a couple of years ago. You can tell which they are by the fact that they have slipcases (usually purple) around the jewel cases.

I often avoid buying jazz on BMG and Columbia for the same concerns you have. If the picture just shows the album cover but not the CD case and I know that it's been remastered, than I just don't buy it.

I suppose you could try checking the release date.

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#3 of 30 OFFLINE   Ten_Smith

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Posted October 03 2002 - 03:52 AM

Thanks Mike. If the remastered versions came out a couple of years ago the probability of BMG still having them seems small. Therefore, I'll gamble and see what happens (unless I'm told that probability is expected to be high). I can always return them. I'll post results after I receive them. Which ones have the usually-purple slip cases? Looked like you were saying the remastered ones have the slip cases, but then I wasn't sure.

#4 of 30 OFFLINE   Mike Broadman

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Posted October 03 2002 - 05:18 AM

The remastered ones have the purple slip-cases. They are also labeled as having "K-20 remastering." Miles Davis titles with that treatment include the two you mentioned, Bags Groove, Cookin', and Modern Jazz Giants. All highly recommended.

#5 of 30 OFFLINE   Ten_Smith

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Posted October 03 2002 - 05:41 AM

Cool, thanks for the info, and wish me luck. Edit: Looking around a little more I see a bunch of other CDs (moody blues, dire straights, ac/dc, earthwindfire, littlefeat, and DukeEllington) that are clearly marked 'remastered', so I think I'll get the Miles at the local store and and get that stuff from BMG. Had to make this an edit, couldn't bare to outnumber other posts on my thread by a 2-to-1 margin.

#6 of 30 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted October 03 2002 - 09:29 AM

Ten, Beware of the Miles remasters. I just receiver In A Silent Way about a month ago, and though labeled remastered on BMGs site, it is definitely not the new remaster which came out in this past year. It is an earlier Columbia remaster, not the 75th anniversary editions. The CD still sounded very nice to me, but then again I have no point of reference. J

#7 of 30 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted October 03 2002 - 12:13 PM

Ten,

I too am wondering which versions of those Miles Davis CDs BMG has. I am waiting for Cookin' from BMG (free coupon Posted Image). Cookin' is readily available in stores in either a standard version for around $12 and the 20-bit K2 remaster for around $15. When I placed the order, I figured I would get the standard version, however, I subsequently got the 20-bit K2 remastered version of Creedence Clearwater Revival's self-titled debut album from BMG rather than the standard CD. In addition, I recently got John Coltrane The Ultimate Blue Train from BMG when I expected to get the standard CD. So, maybe I'll get the 20-bit K2 version of Cookin'. Posted Image

By the way, it seems that CDs from BMG do not come with the slipcases. My Creedence Clearwater Revival and John Coltrane CDs from BMG did not come with the slipcases even though the versions in the store come with them.


Justin,

I have both the original and remastered versions of In A Silent Way, and the remaster is much better. One thing I will warn you about, however, is that the remaster projects the analog tape hiss in all its glory. All the Columbia Jazz Masterpieces CDs I have heard lack the hiss, probably as a result of some sort of dynamic compression. However, they are lacking everywhere else too. These CDs sound flat. Anyway, you get the good with the bad on the remastered version of In A Silent Way, as this version has all the detail of the instruments along with the hiss. The remaster is a much better experience. Of course, the SACD is even better.

By the way, the Columbia Jazz Masterpieces version of In A Silent Way was in print well after Columbia started its "75th Anniversary Celebration" of Miles Davis (2001). As a result, later copies had the silver 75th anniversary sticker. I picked up this version just before the remastered version came out (on purpose), and it had the silver sticker on the shrinkwrap. Just a technical note. Posted Image
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#8 of 30 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted October 03 2002 - 11:47 PM

Ten and anyone else interested, I checked my mail late last night, after submitting my previous post, and sure enough, the copy of Cookin' from BMG was there. I am happy to report that I received the 20-bit K2 remaster. It did not come in the purple cardboard sleeve that the copies in the stores come in, but it's the same disc. Oh, and it's great! Posted Image
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#9 of 30 OFFLINE   Ten_Smith

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Posted October 04 2002 - 03:43 AM

Thank you for the additional information gentleman. I'll definitely go after the coltrane. Keith, has Anyone Out There but me identified your new romantic roots. I used to listen to that with Friends Of Mine, but now its just a Careless Memory. Is There Somthing I Should Know--should I get this on CD and give it another listen after all these years?

#10 of 30 OFFLINE   Mike Broadman

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Posted October 04 2002 - 04:10 AM

Keith, do you have the Cookin' SACD? I had the original Cookin' CD. Sold it, bought the K-20 remastered version. Sold that, bought the SACD. It's a sickness, really. I think they sometimes call original CD issues "remastered" because they are mastered again (after having been mastered on vinyl). So, technically, it is "remastered," just not in the sense we mean. NP: Blackalicious, Blazing Arrow

#11 of 30 OFFLINE   Ten_Smith

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Posted October 08 2002 - 04:32 AM

Thanks all. Here is what I ordered. Cookin' With The Miles Davis Quintet - (Remastered)Miles Davis A Love Supreme (Remastered) - John Coltrane Blue Train (Remastered) - John Coltrane The Best Of Earth Wind & Fire, Vol. 1 (Remastered) - Earth, Wind & Fire All N' All (Remastered) - Earth, Wind & Fire Days Of Future Passed (Remastered) - The Moody Blues Dire Straits (Remastered) - Dire Straits I'll report back on what was re-mastered and what wasn't after I receive them. I wish there was a way to get faster shipping on this order, but it looks like I'll have to wait 2-4 weeks.

#12 of 30 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted October 08 2002 - 09:19 AM

Ten, All of the Dire Straits labeled as remastered on BMG's site are indeed the new remasters that came out not too tot long ago. Dire Straits Dire Straits is an excellent sounding CD. J

#13 of 30 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted October 08 2002 - 11:09 AM

Mike,

I do not yet have the Cookin' SACD, though I will certainly get it. You know me, though. I aspire to have all versions. In addition to the K2 version I have, that means I have to get the standard CD, XRCD, SACD, and out-of-print DCC gold CD. I plan on getting the SACD next.


All,

It is hard to figure what these clubs will send. I recently ordered Miles Davis Someday My Prince Will Come online from Columbia House. The version shown on the web site is the out-of-print Columbia Jazz Masterpieces version, which shows Miles Davis sitting behind a music stand with a cigarette in his mouth. I figured I would get the remastered version, which shows a lady on the cover. Well, the disc came today, and sure enough, I got the out-of-print version. As a collector, I don't mind, however. Posted Image

Based on my Miles Davis experience, I am hoping that Columbia House's web site continues to operate on the WYSIWYG principle. The web site shows 20-bit K2 remasters of several Creedence Clearwater Revival albums, so I ordered three on a great promotion (buy one at full price, get two free). I'll give a report about what I receive. Hopefully they won't send me the standard Fantasy CDs, as I already have those.
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#14 of 30 OFFLINE   Rich Tysinger

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Posted October 08 2002 - 12:00 PM

If any of you are picky about special packaging, here's a little heads up about John Coltrane Atlantic albums offered at BMG: The Coltrane Atlantic albums that were remasterd by Rhino are supposed to come in greyish cardboard gatefolds with mini reproduction LP sleeves inside containing the CD. I ordered the Atlantic album "Ole Coltrane" from BMG and although it was remastered, it was packaged in a jewel case. Thing is, I actually prefer the jewel case!

#15 of 30 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted October 08 2002 - 12:12 PM

Rich, interesting. I recently ordered John Coltrane A Love Supreme from BMG, and it came in the same digipak that I have seen in stores. However, it did not come in the grey cardboard sleeve. I put the disc and booklet in a jewel case. I just don't have the back insert. Posted Image
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#16 of 30 OFFLINE   Mike Broadman

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Posted October 08 2002 - 05:59 PM

Keith, Rich was referring to Coltrane's albums on Atlantic (My Favorite Things, Coltrane Jazz, Coltrane Sound, Giant Steps, Ole, Plays the Blues, The Avant Garde). A Love Supreme is on Impulse! I have seen ALS packaged in three ways: the standard orange and black Impulse! cardboard thing, the same cardboard thing but with white instead of orange, and the same thing again but with a grey slipcase as part of Verve's "Desert Island" series, which is nothing but a lame-ass promotional gimmick. I believe it's all the same exact music, though. I like the grey cardboard thing for Atlantic albums. I have all the Coltrane and Mingus like that (though they have yet to release Pithecanthrepus Erectus like that), as well as some Ornette Coleman and Roland Kirk. Great stuff. I didn't even know there was any other version of Someday My Prince Will Come besides the one with Miles' wife on the cover.

#17 of 30 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted October 08 2002 - 11:41 PM

Mike, right. Rich did mention Atlantic there. When he mentioned the gray carboard cover, I immediately thought of those "Desert Island Discs" covers on the Impulse discs. I agree that they are lame. Anyway, I have seen those Atlantic discs in the digipaks. I don't like digipaks for everyday handling, but those gray Coltrane digipaks do look cool.

You said:

[quote] I didn't even know there was any other version of Someday My Prince Will Come besides the one with Miles' wife on the cover. [quote]

O.K., I didn't know that was Miles' wife. I am guessing that this is the cover that was used for the original LP. Columbia has been doing a nice job in recreating the look of the original Miles Davis LPs with the remastered CDs. Anyway, most, if not all, of Miles Davis' original albums on the Columbia label were released with either the Columbia Jazz Masterpieces logo or Contemporary Jazz Masterpieces logo on the cover. The pictures on the covers were not always true to the original LPs. Besides the original CD of Someday My Prince Will Come, another example of an altered cover is the original CD of Kind of Blue. Instead of having the close-up of Miles facing to the right while playing, the original Kind of Blue CD has a picture of Miles playing from farther away. He is facing slightly to the left and is wearing a slick shirt. It's a cool picture, but obviously, not true to the original LP.
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#18 of 30 OFFLINE   Mike Broadman

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Posted October 09 2002 - 02:10 AM

[quote] O.K., I didn't know that was Miles' wife. [quote]

Yeah, it was his second wife, I think, and the same woman on the cover with him in ESP.

Miles was quite the ladies' man. It's not enough that he was already considered good looking, but he had near-rock star celeb status, too. Some guys just have it all.

I think that was the first cover where he was adamant about putting a black face on the cover. He had big fights with A&R types and executives about that. Hence the covers for Someday My Prince Will Come, ESP, Sorceror, and Nefertiti.

Later, with albums like Bitches Brew and Live-Evil, the covers got more stylized and audacious with African imagery. On the Corner's imagery display's Miles' allegiance to the young African-American culture at the time.

It is rare for a jazz man to put so much though into an album cover. It does tell us that the albums were thought out and presented as a whole, which is why I'm not into those box sets.

#19 of 30 OFFLINE   Steven Hen

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Posted October 09 2002 - 02:56 PM

[quote] Yeah, it was his second wife [quote]

That is Francis Taylor Davis. Miles said in an interview for Playboy "I just got to thinking that as many albums as Negroes buy, I hadn't ever seen a Negro girl on a major album cover unless she was the artist. It was my album, and I'm Frances's prince, so I suggested they use her for a model, and they did it."

Just started reading Milestones by Jack Chambers, awesome read so far!

#20 of 30 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted October 09 2002 - 03:18 PM

Mike,

Great info., once again. I was wondering if that was his wife on E.S.P. too.

You said:

[quote] I think that was the first cover where he was adamant about putting a black face on the cover. He had big fights with A&R types and executives about that. Hence the covers for Someday My Prince Will Come, ESP, Sorceror, and Nefertiti. [quote]

And Miles Smiles and In A Silent Way. Posted Image


Steven,

Thanks for the quote. Interesting.
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