-

Jump to content



Sign up for a free account!

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and you won't get the popup ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

"Total HD" from Warners (re: Blu-ray/HD-DVD hybrid disc)


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
231 replies to this topic

#1 of 232 Chris S

Chris S

    Screenwriter

  • 2,522 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 09 2000
  • Real Name:Chris S

Posted January 04 2007 - 01:45 AM

Found the following announcement on EngadgetHD.com. direct link

Quote:
Originally Posted by EngadgetHD
People love to continue to characterize Blu-ray and HD DVD as VHS vs. BetaMax -- but it's vaguely reassuringly quite different. This time around we aren't contending with physical cartridge incompatibilities and differing analog tape types, thankfully now it's blu-laser based optical discs which do operate differently, but are at least different in the same physical form factor. Enter Warner's finally-commercialized Total HD discs, the hybrid double-sided Blu-ray HD DVD discs we originally heard about being patented are now being commercialized and introduced at CES next week. Of course, so long as some studios don't release in both formats on the same disc (say, for example, Sony Pictures Entertainment), this disc actually hinders the unwitting user who buys content that isn't double-sided, thinking that Blu-ray and HD DVD formats are no longer relevant in day to day buying decisions. We know this is indeed a great stopgap for all those crossover movies released in multiple formats, but we really think it's the hybrid players, not discs, that are going to save the day during this format war.

My concern here would be the additional cost of the media itself and the lack of room for extras. I would imagine that both side are only single layer.
DVD & Blu-ray - It's all about the movies!

#2 of 232 Shawn Perron

Shawn Perron

    Supporting Actor

  • 500 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 25 2002

Posted January 04 2007 - 04:32 AM

If these new discs are a single layer for each format, we may have a new reason regret this format war. While the Blu-Ray layer might be about equal to the quality of a dual layer HD-DVD due to constant improvements in VC1, the HD-DVD layer might teach us what VC1 and AVC compression artifacts look like, and forget about lossless audio at 15GB.

#3 of 232 BrettB

BrettB

    Producer

  • 3,024 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 01 2001

Posted January 04 2007 - 04:57 AM

No thanks.

#4 of 232 DeathStar1

DeathStar1

    Producer

  • 3,291 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 28 2001

Posted January 04 2007 - 05:35 AM

I'd definetley buy movies with both formats on them...then if one comes out the 'winner' in this war, I won't have to Re-Re buy...

#5 of 232 Joseph DeMartino

Joseph DeMartino

    Lead Actor

  • 8,301 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 31 1969
  • Real Name:Joseph DeMartino
  • LocationFlorida

Posted January 04 2007 - 05:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Perron
If these new discs are...
...we may have a new reason...
...the Blu-Ray layer might...

In short we know nothing based on this short news item, but we're guessing this might mean something bad. (Even though we have zero technical information.)

Quote:
No thanks.

So let's pre-emptively reject the new hybrid discs.

Good plan. Maybe later we can stick our fingers in our ears and hum real loud.

Personally I like to see a little evidence before I decide the sky is falling.

YMMV.

Quote:
My concern here would be the additional cost of the media itself and the lack of room for extras.

Yeah, cause it isn't like the could put non-scene-specific extras like documentaries or delteted scenes on a second disc or anything. Posted Image

Quote:
I would imagine that both sides are only single layer.

Why would you imagine that? Are current HD-DVD and Blu Ray discs single layer? Do you think that Warner Bros. (which has been talking about this idea for over a year now) might have considered this issue before they developed the new disc standard and decided to debut it?

Now we're rejecting things for imaginary reasons. Posted Image

Regards,

Joe

#6 of 232 BrettB

BrettB

    Producer

  • 3,024 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 01 2001

Posted January 04 2007 - 06:01 AM

I didn't say the sky was falling. I said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettB
No thanks.

I have zero interest in this. YMODV. Posted Image

Seeing how you're a glass-half-full open-minded type please feel free to expound on all the possible benefits to the consumer. And for the record, IMHO, an unnecessary 'second disc' isn't a benefit.

#7 of 232 Shawn Perron

Shawn Perron

    Supporting Actor

  • 500 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 25 2002

Posted January 04 2007 - 06:06 AM

http://www.engadget.....e-hybrid-disc/

Quote:
The hybrid disc works by making the Blu-ray layer act like a two way mirror, reflecting enough light for Blu-ray playback, but letting enough light through for HD DVD operation.

Well, there's confirmation of a single layer for Blu-Ray at any rate. Even if the HD-DVD is dual layer, the Blu-Ray layer will be the least common denomonator. It's not like they are going to indiviually list the specs for each format on the disc. They will author the discs to be identical, with identical transfers, extras and sound. So in effect both formats will be limited to 25GB. Previously Warner had been making the 30GB HD-DVD the least common denomonator and using 30GB of the 50GB Blu-Ray discs, so there is definitely precedence.

#8 of 232 DaViD Boulet

DaViD Boulet

    Lead Actor

  • 8,805 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 24 1999

Posted January 04 2007 - 07:25 AM

Let's not be too hastely. That doesn't confirm that the BD has to be single layer (though it may be).

If WB can acheive 50 gig BD and 30 gig HD DVD on a single disc I would have no problem with combo-discs whatsoever.

I'll wait to hear more. We should hear all the details at CES.
Be an Original Aspect Ratio Advocate

Supporter of 1080p24 video and lossless 24 bit audio.

#9 of 232 Marko Berg

Marko Berg

    Supporting Actor

  • 856 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 22 2002

Posted January 04 2007 - 07:44 AM

Some early HD DVDs encoded in VC-1 were single-layer only and reportedly look just fine. If they are at least comparable to single-layer Blu-ray discs encoded in MPEG-2, many of which also reportedly look just fine, this release format, even if limited to a single layer per format only, could be useful.

If the dual format has limited storage space, I don't see Warner using it for major titles in any case, and HD early adopters probably needn't fear compromises are being made on important new releases. It's more likely that those will continue to merit separate, possibly multi-disc, releases on the two formats. Once the HD market develops a little, this format could be applied to e.g. bare-bones releases of less important catalog titles with relatively short run-times.

#10 of 232 Rolando

Rolando

    Screenwriter

  • 1,317 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 19 2001

Posted January 04 2007 - 07:58 AM

Well I am sure they could make both sides dual layer like HD-DVD combos are dual layer on both sides.

My beef is with having data on both sides and no "safe" side.

Forget about the "silly" reason that I hate it when there is no art on disc. The worse is that you have to be extra careful not to get fingerprints and smudges on either side at any time.

And rentals? forget about it!

I hate renting flippers where OAR is on one side and Pan & Scan on the other. Some inconsiderate prick watched his chopped version and did not care about getting his grubby finger prints all over the OAR side.

Some imagine renting a disc to watch the Blu-Ray side after some hardcore HD-DVD fan rented it? or vice-vera of course.

no thanks!

As for owning? I feel the same way I feel about pan and scan flippers and Combo SD/HD DVD: On principle I hate have something I will never use taking up space AND getting charged for it.
Rolando Avendano

My Collection

#11 of 232 Chris S

Chris S

    Screenwriter

  • 2,522 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 09 2000
  • Real Name:Chris S

Posted January 04 2007 - 08:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino
Yeah, cause it isn't like the could put non-scene-specific extras like documentaries or delteted scenes on a second disc or anything. Posted Image

And that wouldn't cost more or anything. Posted Image

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino
Why would you imagine that? Are current HD-DVD and Blu Ray discs single layer? Do you think that Warner Bros. (which has been talking about this idea for over a year now) might have considered this issue before they developed the new disc standard and decided to debut it?


I believe that it will originally be single layered because the other hybrid disc format pioneered by Warner's was originally single layered (see "Rumor Has It"). This leads me to imagine that this format will also be single layer, at least at first.

I'm sure they've considered dual layer but I would (again) imagine that pressing of a two sided dual layer disc will be cost prohibitive at first. In a way they are actually pressing two discs and then add in the complexity of doing this with dual layers. Also dual layer BD is relatively new (only a few months old) which leads me to think Warner hasn't been able to perfect that mastering process in that time for this launch.
DVD & Blu-ray - It's all about the movies!

#12 of 232 Yumbo

Yumbo

    Screenwriter

  • 2,243 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 13 1999

Posted January 04 2007 - 08:29 AM

Just be aware that dual format (DVD/HD-DVD, HD/BD) hybrids on a single side ala SACD hybrid cannot be repaired by buffing machines if they end up with scratches (my Sting hybrid was killed), unless they come up with a new solution for that.

#13 of 232 DaViD Boulet

DaViD Boulet

    Lead Actor

  • 8,805 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 24 1999

Posted January 04 2007 - 09:06 AM

Quote:
My beef is with having data on both sides and no "safe" side.

It sounded like the laser read all layers from one side.
Be an Original Aspect Ratio Advocate

Supporter of 1080p24 video and lossless 24 bit audio.

#14 of 232 BrettB

BrettB

    Producer

  • 3,024 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 01 2001

Posted January 04 2007 - 09:23 AM

That's what I read also but I can't find it now. Somewhere the term '2-way mirror' was used to describe it, with the the player being able to read the one formats' layer underneath the other formats' layer on top.

#15 of 232 Joseph DeMartino

Joseph DeMartino

    Lead Actor

  • 8,301 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 31 1969
  • Real Name:Joseph DeMartino
  • LocationFlorida

Posted January 04 2007 - 09:23 AM

Quote:
And that [putting extras on a second disc] wouldn't cost more or anything. Posted Image

Well, it wouldn't cost much. Replication and physical media are among the lowest costs for any digital disc-based medium. I don't know why people act as though having two discs doubles the cost of a DVD or having one disc should cut cost in half. Content is expensive. And it costs almost exactly the same amount of money to produce X amount of content and put it on 2 discs as it does to put it on 1. (In some cases it is cheaper because prodcution yields on high-density media tend to be lower than on lower density discs.)

Any additional cost would be trivial compared to a one disc version - and would certainly be better than omitting extra content or overcompressing it, the consequences of insisting on a one-disc solution in your scenario.

Regards,

Joe

#16 of 232 Grant H

Grant H

    Screenwriter

  • 2,844 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 24 2002

Posted January 04 2007 - 09:37 AM

What was that about re-inventing the wheel? Posted Image

And how much will these releases cost? (assuming anyone actually adopts it)

People still gripe about the HD-DVD combo disc price.

Why buy 2 discs when you can buy 1 at twice the price?

Sorry, I'm not thrilled by any of the HD news that hit today. It's all unnecessary complexity IMO.
My midis bring all the Force to the yard; my midis are better than yours!

#17 of 232 DeathStar1

DeathStar1

    Producer

  • 3,291 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 28 2001

Posted January 04 2007 - 10:30 AM

thedigitalbits.com is reporting that LG may release a combo player sometime in early 2007 via a leaked report. That would be good Posted Image. I'd snap it up before lawsuits hit LG from the competing studios Posted Image.

#18 of 232 Joseph DeMartino

Joseph DeMartino

    Lead Actor

  • 8,301 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 31 1969
  • Real Name:Joseph DeMartino
  • LocationFlorida

Posted January 04 2007 - 10:49 AM

The LG story has been reported in varoius forms since yesterday, and they were making public noises about such player since last year, so this isn't exactly a scoop. (It is mentioned further up in this thread, for one thing. Posted Image)

Video business released a story on both the WB discs and the LG player today.

And if they've licesened the technology from both the Blu Ray and HD-DVD camps I don't see a) what grounds the studios would have for suing anybody and b) why they'd bother. Oh, look, another machine that plays the discs we make - let's kill it! Posted Image

The studios (except for Sony, which is also a hardware manufacturer) really don't have a dog in this fight. As long as there is a hi-def format to release their films on and people buy them, they'll be happy. A hybrid player helps sell more discs because people don't have to choose BD or HD-DVD, so they can choose which format they prefer to movies relesaed in both while also enjoying any exclusives on both formats. How is this a bad thing for the studios? If I'm a BD exclusive studio would I rather sell to the X percent of the market that is BD and forego the Y percent that is HD-DVD, or to the X+N percent of the market that is BD/Hybrid? The LG player lets me sell titles to people without converting them away from the church of HD to the church of BD.

I don't understand why more consumer choice is considered a bad thing. Do a lot of you guys own stock in Sony or Toshiba? Posted Image

Regards,

Joe

#19 of 232 TonyD

TonyD

    Executive Producer

  • 16,042 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 01 1999
  • Real Name:Tony D.
  • LocationDisney World and Universal Florida

Posted January 04 2007 - 11:40 AM

i vote no for a combo disc of any kind.

i'm already forced to buy a combo if i want supes returns on hd dvd now i'm sure i'll be forced to buy another form of combo disc for certain titles.

now if there is a seperate non combo available then i'm alll for it.
facebook.com/whotony

#20 of 232 John H Ross

John H Ross

    Screenwriter

  • 1,047 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 16 2000

Posted January 04 2007 - 11:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris S
We know this is indeed a great stopgap for all those crossover movies released in multiple formats, but we really think it's the hybrid players, not discs, that are going to save the day during this format war.

Neither hybrid discs NOR hybrid players are going to save the day during the format war. Quite the opposite, they will prolong the war. It will be the final nail in the coffin of ANY hope in finding a clear winner.

I really can't stress this strongly enough.


Back to Blu-ray



Forum Nav Content I Follow