"Total HD" from Warners (re: Blu-ray/HD-DVD hybrid disc)

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Chris S, Jan 4, 2007.

  1. Chris S

    Chris S Cinematographer

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    Found the following announcement on EngadgetHD.com. direct link


    My concern here would be the additional cost of the media itself and the lack of room for extras. I would imagine that both side are only single layer.
     
  2. Shawn Perron

    Shawn Perron Supporting Actor

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    If these new discs are a single layer for each format, we may have a new reason regret this format war. While the Blu-Ray layer might be about equal to the quality of a dual layer HD-DVD due to constant improvements in VC1, the HD-DVD layer might teach us what VC1 and AVC compression artifacts look like, and forget about lossless audio at 15GB.
     
  3. BrettB

    BrettB Producer

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    No thanks.
     
  4. DeathStar1

    DeathStar1 Producer

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    I'd definetley buy movies with both formats on them...then if one comes out the 'winner' in this war, I won't have to Re-Re buy...
     
  5. Joseph DeMartino

    Joseph DeMartino Lead Actor

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    Why would you imagine that? Are current HD-DVD and Blu Ray discs single layer? Do you think that Warner Bros. (which has been talking about this idea for over a year now) might have considered this issue before they developed the new disc standard and decided to debut it?

    Now we're rejecting things for imaginary reasons. [​IMG]

    Regards,

    Joe
     
  6. BrettB

    BrettB Producer

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    I didn't say the sky was falling. I said...


    I have zero interest in this. YMODV. [​IMG]

    Seeing how you're a glass-half-full open-minded type please feel free to expound on all the possible benefits to the consumer. And for the record, IMHO, an unnecessary 'second disc' isn't a benefit.
     
  7. Shawn Perron

    Shawn Perron Supporting Actor

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    http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/18/t...e-hybrid-disc/


    Well, there's confirmation of a single layer for Blu-Ray at any rate. Even if the HD-DVD is dual layer, the Blu-Ray layer will be the least common denomonator. It's not like they are going to indiviually list the specs for each format on the disc. They will author the discs to be identical, with identical transfers, extras and sound. So in effect both formats will be limited to 25GB. Previously Warner had been making the 30GB HD-DVD the least common denomonator and using 30GB of the 50GB Blu-Ray discs, so there is definitely precedence.
     
  8. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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    Let's not be too hastely. That doesn't confirm that the BD has to be single layer (though it may be).

    If WB can acheive 50 gig BD and 30 gig HD DVD on a single disc I would have no problem with combo-discs whatsoever.

    I'll wait to hear more. We should hear all the details at CES.
     
  9. Marko Berg

    Marko Berg Supporting Actor

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    Some early HD DVDs encoded in VC-1 were single-layer only and reportedly look just fine. If they are at least comparable to single-layer Blu-ray discs encoded in MPEG-2, many of which also reportedly look just fine, this release format, even if limited to a single layer per format only, could be useful.

    If the dual format has limited storage space, I don't see Warner using it for major titles in any case, and HD early adopters probably needn't fear compromises are being made on important new releases. It's more likely that those will continue to merit separate, possibly multi-disc, releases on the two formats. Once the HD market develops a little, this format could be applied to e.g. bare-bones releases of less important catalog titles with relatively short run-times.
     
  10. Rolando

    Rolando Screenwriter

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    Well I am sure they could make both sides dual layer like HD-DVD combos are dual layer on both sides.

    My beef is with having data on both sides and no "safe" side.

    Forget about the "silly" reason that I hate it when there is no art on disc. The worse is that you have to be extra careful not to get fingerprints and smudges on either side at any time.

    And rentals? forget about it!

    I hate renting flippers where OAR is on one side and Pan & Scan on the other. Some inconsiderate prick watched his chopped version and did not care about getting his grubby finger prints all over the OAR side.

    Some imagine renting a disc to watch the Blu-Ray side after some hardcore HD-DVD fan rented it? or vice-vera of course.

    no thanks!

    As for owning? I feel the same way I feel about pan and scan flippers and Combo SD/HD DVD: On principle I hate have something I will never use taking up space AND getting charged for it.
     
  11. Chris S

    Chris S Cinematographer

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    I believe that it will originally be single layered because the other hybrid disc format pioneered by Warner's was originally single layered (see "Rumor Has It"). This leads me to imagine that this format will also be single layer, at least at first.

    I'm sure they've considered dual layer but I would (again) imagine that pressing of a two sided dual layer disc will be cost prohibitive at first. In a way they are actually pressing two discs and then add in the complexity of doing this with dual layers. Also dual layer BD is relatively new (only a few months old) which leads me to think Warner hasn't been able to perfect that mastering process in that time for this launch.
     
  12. Yumbo

    Yumbo Cinematographer

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    Just be aware that dual format (DVD/HD-DVD, HD/BD) hybrids on a single side ala SACD hybrid cannot be repaired by buffing machines if they end up with scratches (my Sting hybrid was killed), unless they come up with a new solution for that.
     
  13. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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    It sounded like the laser read all layers from one side.
     
  14. BrettB

    BrettB Producer

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    That's what I read also but I can't find it now. Somewhere the term '2-way mirror' was used to describe it, with the the player being able to read the one formats' layer underneath the other formats' layer on top.
     
  15. Joseph DeMartino

    Joseph DeMartino Lead Actor

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    Well, it wouldn't cost much. Replication and physical media are among the lowest costs for any digital disc-based medium. I don't know why people act as though having two discs doubles the cost of a DVD or having one disc should cut cost in half. Content is expensive. And it costs almost exactly the same amount of money to produce X amount of content and put it on 2 discs as it does to put it on 1. (In some cases it is cheaper because prodcution yields on high-density media tend to be lower than on lower density discs.)

    Any additional cost would be trivial compared to a one disc version - and would certainly be better than omitting extra content or overcompressing it, the consequences of insisting on a one-disc solution in your scenario.

    Regards,

    Joe
     
  16. Grant H

    Grant H Cinematographer

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    What was that about re-inventing the wheel? [​IMG]

    And how much will these releases cost? (assuming anyone actually adopts it)

    People still gripe about the HD-DVD combo disc price.

    Why buy 2 discs when you can buy 1 at twice the price?

    Sorry, I'm not thrilled by any of the HD news that hit today. It's all unnecessary complexity IMO.
     
  17. DeathStar1

    DeathStar1 Producer

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    thedigitalbits.com is reporting that LG may release a combo player sometime in early 2007 via a leaked report. That would be good [​IMG]. I'd snap it up before lawsuits hit LG from the competing studios [​IMG].
     
  18. Joseph DeMartino

    Joseph DeMartino Lead Actor

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    The LG story has been reported in varoius forms since yesterday, and they were making public noises about such player since last year, so this isn't exactly a scoop. (It is mentioned further up in this thread, for one thing. [​IMG])

    Video business released a story on both the WB discs and the LG player today.

    And if they've licesened the technology from both the Blu Ray and HD-DVD camps I don't see a) what grounds the studios would have for suing anybody and b) why they'd bother. Oh, look, another machine that plays the discs we make - let's kill it! [​IMG]

    The studios (except for Sony, which is also a hardware manufacturer) really don't have a dog in this fight. As long as there is a hi-def format to release their films on and people buy them, they'll be happy. A hybrid player helps sell more discs because people don't have to choose BD or HD-DVD, so they can choose which format they prefer to movies relesaed in both while also enjoying any exclusives on both formats. How is this a bad thing for the studios? If I'm a BD exclusive studio would I rather sell to the X percent of the market that is BD and forego the Y percent that is HD-DVD, or to the X+N percent of the market that is BD/Hybrid? The LG player lets me sell titles to people without converting them away from the church of HD to the church of BD.

    I don't understand why more consumer choice is considered a bad thing. Do a lot of you guys own stock in Sony or Toshiba? [​IMG]

    Regards,

    Joe
     
  19. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    i vote no for a combo disc of any kind.

    i'm already forced to buy a combo if i want supes returns on hd dvd now i'm sure i'll be forced to buy another form of combo disc for certain titles.

    now if there is a seperate non combo available then i'm alll for it.
     
  20. John H Ross

    John H Ross Screenwriter

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    Neither hybrid discs NOR hybrid players are going to save the day during the format war. Quite the opposite, they will prolong the war. It will be the final nail in the coffin of ANY hope in finding a clear winner.

    I really can't stress this strongly enough.
     

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