What about a Blu of Ryans Daughter (1 Viewer)

[Douglas R]

I may be in the minority, but I believe THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE to be a very intelligent and finely acted epic, expertly directed by Anthony Mann. The re-creation of the Roman Forum is the most spectacular I have ever seen (bigger, in fact, than the original) and the performances by actors such as James Mason, Alec Guiness and Christopher Plummer are compelling.

I agree. I saw the film several times in 70mm and have always thought it an excellent, spectacular film. I've never understood the hatred many people have for it.

 

[OliverK]

Lionel as you can see you are not alone, I also like Fall a lot and prefer it to Gladiator.Russell Crowe is the asset of Gladiator and the story is enormously simplified therefore making it more compelling to some but I still prefer Fall which imo has many other interesting actors aside from the rather wooden Stephen Boyd and also those magnificent sets and cinematography. I think that both Fall and EL Cid are underrated and it is a shame that we have them in very bad looking versions while the imo weakest Bronston spectacular that was produced on the smallest scale (Circus World) is looking so good on Blu-ray.

 

[AdrianTurner]

I may be in the minority, but I believe THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE to be a very intelligent and finely acted epic, expertly directed by Anthony Mann. The re-creation of the Roman Forum is the most spectacular I have ever seen (bigger, in fact, than the original) and the performances by actors such as James Mason, Alec Guiness and Christopher Plummer are compelling.

Yes, agree . . . but the thing which (for me) handicaps FOTRE is Stephen Boyd. While Mr Boyd was an utterly outstanding villain in Ben-Hur, he doesn't quite become the romantic hero of FOTRE - he just looks wrong in the part and that part, we know, was first offered to Mr Heston. Otherwise, FOTRE is a magnificent picture and fascinating to compare with its virtual remake, Gladiator.

 

[Paul Rossen]

Having seen FOTRE during it's original roadshow run the only 'thing' that I recall being outstanding were the set designs. The Roman forum set was truly an eye fill. The only problem I had with it was when the camera panned back you can clearly see that we are in the plains of somewhere(in Spain of course). Some matte work or other 'tricks' of the trade should have corrected this...

Mr. Boyd who others have said was so good in Ben-Hur(I agree) was indeed wooden. But all of the stars are either wooden or simply don't know what they are doing. An exception was Christopher Plummer who was a blast. He certainly loved the camera.

Of course any mention of FOTRE cannot be complete without stating that Dimitri Tiomkin's score was loud enough to give anyone a headache. In fact I still have mine.

The Bronston film that I would want to be given a truly great presentation is El Cid. Perhaps one day...

 

[mark brown]

Bradford ran a 70mm archival print of FOTRE a few years back and that was the first time we had seen this good film. The chariot sequence on the curved screen was a lot of fun!

 

[lionel59]

James Mason is terrific in FOTRE. I have never seen him give a poor performance and this is no exception. Plummer steals the acting honors (outdoing Joaquin Phoenix by a country mile) but the other supporting actors (Mel Ferrer, John McIntire, Finlay Currie, Anthony Quayle, Alec Guiness) all do great work in my opinion. Loren is a bit glacial but stunningly beautiful and has some great moments near the end when railing on the people of Rome. As much as I like Heston, it may have been too much having him in EVERY epic made at this time (ie. BEN HUR,EL CID,55 DAYS AT PEKING,THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY etc). At times, the 'hero' is the least interesting character in films of this ilk- the character actors get all the best scenes. Boyd was very effective in films like THE MAN WHO NEVER WAS, LISA, WOMAN OBSESSED and THE BRAVADOS. I think the 'Nimrod' sequence in Huston's THE BIBLE is one of the best in that (under-rated) film. Despite it's length, I'm never bored watching FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE. I wish I'd been at Bradford. Was the color good on the print?
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[FoxyMulder]

Who owns the rights to FOTRE and does anyone think there is a chance in the future of seeing the uncut version taken from the surviving 16mm negatives, perhaps a 2K scan of those negatives and give it as an extra on a future re-release.

 

[Dr Griffin]

Has anyone seen a 70mm Super Technirama print, recently, of El Cid? I would especially like to see this with the 6 track sound.

 

[OliverK]

Who owns the rights to FOTRE and does anyone think there is a chance in the future of seeing the uncut version taken from the surviving 16mm negatives, perhaps a 2K scan of those negatives and give it as an extra on a future re-release.

A prime candidate for seamless branching imo as there are not too many additional sequences that are only available on those 16mm elements.The rights situation is not as bad as people might think as basically one could work on FOTRE the same as on 55 Days or Circus World that both got very good Blu-rays compared to what we have seen for FOTRE. The problem is that both FOTRE and El Cid have already been released in so many territories with Blu-rays from the existing subpar masters that it is hard to sell them again a few years after those who were interested in the movies already got their Blu-ray.Forgot to mention: For the bulk of the movie work would be more difficult to perform as Fall was shot in 65mm and there are far fewer facilities that can handle 65mm than there are for 35 and 16mm. This would increase costs although it seems that prices for 65/70mm scans have gone down quite a bit so the increase will probably be less than a few years ago.

 

[OliverK]

Has anyone seen a 70mm Super Technirama print, recently, of El Cid? I would especially like to see this with the 6 track sound.

70mm Prints were only struck for premiere engagaments and would look really pinkish and desaturated, like this frame from Ben-Hur:http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/special/camera65.htmSo you might be disappointed.The best bet to get good color and a multichannel magnetic sound would be an uncut 35mm Technicolor 4-track print in good condition, but these are as rare as hen's teeth.And then there are the prints from the 90ies 35mm re-release but to my knowledge they have digital sound.

 

[Allansfirebird]

Who owns the rights to FOTRE and does anyone think there is a chance in the future of seeing the uncut version taken from the surviving 16mm negatives, perhaps a 2K scan of those negatives and give it as an extra on a future re-release.

I've heard fleeting mentions of this uncut version before, but I've never been able to find out just how much additional footage it contains. Is it just a few scenes or some hefty plot extensions?

 

[OliverK]

I've heard fleeting mentions of this uncut version before, but I've never been able to find out just how much additional footage it contains. Is it just a few scenes or some hefty plot extensions?

It basically seems to come down to the trilemma scene, over on blu-ray.com somebody posts who located the footage at filmbond in the UK.Edit: I have just asked him if there was any additional footage apart from the trilemma scene.

 

[FoxyMulder]

I've heard fleeting mentions of this uncut version before, but I've never been able to find out just how much additional footage it contains. Is it just a few scenes or some hefty plot extensions?

I got my info from IMDB, not always correct but here it is anyway.

I think the second paragraph talks about other cut versions but it's been a while since i saw it so i'm not sure.*

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058085/alternateversions

The very first scene to go was one between Commodus and Livius in the middle of their drinking session on arriving at the German fort. As they go upstairs to pick out two of the hostage German women, Commodus explains that he is on the horns of not a dilemma by a trilemma - if there are gods, they have decided what he will do so it doesn't matter whether he is good or bad; if there are no gods, then it simply doesn't matter if he leads a good or a bad life; and if he himself is a god, then he gets to decide what is good or bad. That is why, if you listen carefully, you can hear the gods laughing... The omission of this scene explains that incredibly abrupt cut from them going upstairs to Commodus trying to force a drink on the German girl.

There are a number of cuts in the other versions, most notably the second scene with Marcus Aurelius and Lucilla; most of Timonides' big speech to the Senate about accepting the barbarians into the Empire; and the scene where Livius tries to appeal to the Senate after failing to sway Commodus in the temple only for them to turn against him and arrest him. In some prints, the first scene after the intermission, of Lucilla leaving Marcus Aurelius' meditations in the temple for safekeeping is also dropped.

*The film was cut a number of times, from 187 minutes to 185 to 165 to 158

 

[sonomatom1]

FOTRE: I've tried watching it in its entirety so many times, but it is so damn dark, depressing, and completely uninteresting - and as others have commented, Stephen Boyd and Sophia Loren are not assets (unless you're rating them on the 'eye candy' scale). I fail to understand why Loren was so popular as an actress (not a movie star) -- she was horrible in El Cid. Did you ever notice how Heston ages in that film but the timeless Loren looks the same decade after decade as the story moves forward? Stepping off my soapbox now...

 

[cinerama10]

FOTRE: I've tried watching it in its entirety so many times, but it is so damn dark, depressing, and completely uninteresting - and as others have commented, Stephen Boyd and Sophia Loren are not assets (unless you're rating them on the 'eye candy' scale). I fail to understand why Loren was so popular as an actress (not a movie star) -- she was horrible in El Cid. Did you ever notice how Heston ages in that film but the timeless Loren looks the same decade after decade as the story moves forward? Stepping off my soapbox now...

Have you ever seen Sophie Loren in TWO WOMEN? Perhaps one of the all time greatest female performances in this Italian Academy award winning masterpiece. Heston was only capable of giving very wooden performances.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

Heston was only capable of giving very wooden performances.

Umm, no. That is incorrect.

 

[DP 70]

Has anyone seen a 70mm Super Technirama print, recently, of El Cid? I would especially like to see this with the 6 track sound.

I saw this in 70mm in the late 70s at the NFT in London , I remember Adrian who then worked at the NFT making an announcement before the film started about the loss of some of the colours in the print.

 

[Malcolm Bmoor]

I was at another 70mm showing of EL CID at the NFT, probably late 90s. There were similar apologies made in advance that this burnt it subtitled (can't remember the language) PINK print was all that had been available to book. In addition, they hadn't realised until the performance how badly cut it was.

Afterwards, a senior person apologised again and then some stupid audience member began a tirade '..... this isn't good enough .....' and wouldn't listen to: 'You find us a perfect print and we'll show it'.

 

[DP 70]

I was at another 70mm showing of EL CID at the NFT, probably late 90s. There were similar apologies made in advance that this burnt it subtitled (can't remember the language) PINK print was all that had been available to book. In addition, they hadn't realised until the performance how badly cut it was.

Afterwards, a senior person apologised again and then some stupid audience member began a tirade '..... this isn't good enough .....' and wouldn't listen to: 'You find us a perfect print and we'll show it'.

Thanks for that Malcolm, a perfect 70mm print in Eastman Colour I don't think so, all the best Derek.

 

[mark brown]

The color of the Bradford print was mediocre as i recall.