Oliver (1968) (1 Viewer)

[Richard Gallagher]

If you can't sell 3,000 units of a popular Jack Nicholson film, what does that say about this business model?

What it tells me is that Twilight Time doesn't need to sell out its titles in order to turn a profit. Obviously I am not privy to what the break-even point is, but to date they have sold out only a handful of titles and they are still in business.

 

[Brandon Conway]

It will at least have the virtue of being an entirely new experience for me Brandon.

And that's perfectly fine. I'm just talking in generalities and not on behalf of every specific person's tastes. Truth is that Oliver! is usually on many of those "Worst Best Picture Winners" lists next to The Greatest Show on Earth and Cimarron.

 

[ROclockCK]

Time. Distance. Tenuous maturity.

I'm finally willing to give Oliver! a fair shake on its own merits.

 

[JoHud]

I don't think it reflects the business model as much as the poor state of affairs the home Blu-ray market is. Most people who like the film already have the title on DVD and did not see a reason to upgrade.

Christine and Fright Night both appeal to a very specific, internet savvy client.
80s horror film fans know their way around the internet boards.

How many folks out there who would buy Oliver! on Blu-ray will know where to find it?

How many fans of The Blue Lagoon even know it is available on Blu-ray?
(Case in point, my sister would happily pick it up if it showed up at the local retailer.)

I'm thinking its a combination of the two here that will limit this films' sales through Twilight Time. Limited online distribution titles that can't even be backordered through B&N kind of requires an internet savviness along with an overall consumer savviness to find the these particular titles. At the same time, there is always the diminishing returns of a double-dip, esp froma DVD to blu-ray upgrade. Of course, there's always the price that still gives more casual consumers second thoughts about going through with a purchase.

I agree with Mark that the big cult titles with wide online fandoms are bound to sell out faster than the rest, even some of the older perennial classics. Twilight Time's business model is definitely skewed toward the collector and cult fanbases rather than mainstream. I think Sony could have made a go of Oliver! and gotten decent enough returns, but its pretty clear that Sony is extremely selective about what they release themselves on blu-ray and is only interested in titles that all but guarantee major sales.

I suppose I'm also one of the few that never saw this film. I held off on the DVD in the high hopes that it was coming out in a R1 blu-ray, and thankfully that patience paid off. These days I'm just grateful the title is getting a BD upgrade at all and that studios like Sony at least care enough about their film library to commit the time and effort into offering quality transfers and presentations.

 

[ahollis]

OLIVER has some merits. I have always enjoyed the Lionel Bart music and the Onna White choragraphy. Ron Moody, Oliver Reed, and Jack Wild gave top notch performances. That said, if I had voted in the 1968 Oscars, I would have voted for THE LION IN WINTER.

 

[Lromero1396]

Me too. I thought AS Good As It Gets would have had wide appeal.

Ditto.

Please, No.

Not well liked? Surely you jest? (yeah, I know, don't call you Shirley). As for not all TT releases not selling out, that could ascribed at least partly to the price and the general public not knowing about TT.

I agree with everything you have said here.

edit: Never mind. I totally missed the sarcasm in that last post.

I was being serious. I'm not interested in this release because I don't particularly care for Oliver!.

 

[Lromero1396]

And that's perfectly fine. I'm just talking in generalities and not on behalf of every specific person's tastes. Truth is that Oliver! is usually on many of those "Worst Best Picture Winners" lists next to The Greatest Show on Earth and Cimarron.

Please don't discredit The Greatest Show on Earth. I do, however feel that High Noon should have won that year. TGSOE is nowhere near as bad of a Best Picture winner as Cimarron and I believe that TGSOE gets a lot of undeserved hate because it beat High Noon.

 

[Mark-P]

I was being serious. I'm not interested in this release because I don't particularly care for Oliver!.

I know you were being serious about not liking Oliver!. I initially thought you were serious about your outrage over a Best Picture Winner being licensed, hence the sarcasm.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Please don't discredit The Greatest Show on Earth. I do, however feel that High Noon should have won that year. TGSOE is nowhere near as bad of a Best Picture winner as Cimarron and I believe that TGSOE gets a lot of undeserved hate because it beat High Noon.

I'm not discrediting anything. These are objective observations of the general consensus.

 

[Alan Tully]

Please don't discredit The Greatest Show on Earth. I do, however feel that High Noon should have won that year. TGSOE is nowhere near as bad of a Best Picture winner as Cimarron and I believe that TGSOE gets a lot of undeserved hate because it beat High Noon.

The Greatest Show On Earth is good colourful fun (I'd buy a Blu in a shot), but a candidate for best film; I don't think so.

 

[Mikey1969]

I'm surprised Sony is handing this over to TT to release. Their list of classics is pretty small, compared with other major studios. It's hardly a great film, but it's decent, and it has a fair share of admirers. Personally, as much as I like musicals, Oliver gives me a headache after five minutes. Still it would be nice if it's finally released in a decent way considering how badly Sony has mangled it in the past.

 

[Escapay]

Oliver! is a childhood favorite of mine, so I'll be getting this, Twilight Time or not. And since it is a Twilight Time title, I can look forward to the isolated score, which Sony likely would not have bothered to include.

 

[David Weicker]

I'm not discrediting anything. These are objective observations of the general consensus.

No, its not the general consensus. They are not 'objective' - they are merely some list-maker's opinions (which make them 'subjective' observations).

Oliver is a terrific film.

Was it the best film of that year - maybe, maybe not. But it was at least deserving of its nomination. It is not a bad film (as some of the people who rank it lowly have written)

As for its marketability, Broadway Musicals have a built-in market that other straight dramatic films don't. Many schools still put on versions of this, that drum up interest.

 

[Brandon Conway]

No, its not the general consensus. They are not 'objective' - they are merely some list-maker's opinions (which make them 'subjective' observations).

My statement was the objective one. Of course the lists are compilations of subjective opinions. But I'll rephrase again:

Objectively speaking it is often subjectively judged as being one of the weaker Best Picture winners.

Again, all I'm saying - nothing more, nothing less - is that just because Oliver! is a Best Picture winner doesn't mean it's going to sell out rapidly, because as Best Picture winners go it seems to be less liked in general than most.

I just don't see the rush to buy this release along the lines of the horror films that sold out quickly, or the sci-fi/fantasy films that sold out in 6-9 months. Maybe musicals will also be a genre that sells out quickly, but Bye Bye Birdie seems to have sold about the same as the rest of the non-horror/sci-fi films, and that's really the only title to go by so far for genre comparison.

 

[Cine_Capsulas]

No, its not the general consensus. They are not 'objective' - they are merely some list-maker's opinions (which make them 'subjective' observations).

It features in lots and lots of lists ranking the worst Oscar winners. That's a fact. You will see it in Oscar-related websites, classic movie pages and books about the Oscars. It simply doesn't have a good reputation among cinephiles nowadays. It's OK if you like the film, but you're in the minority.

 

[Matt Hough]

But who is making these lists? Someone who doesn't like musicals maybe? It's beautifully done, faithful to the stage source without being slavish to it, and features highly praised performances.I remember Richard Schickel (not a favorite of mine) writing an op-ed piece for LIFE magazine at the time called "How About an Oscar for OLIVER!" because THE LION IN WINTER had just won the NY Film Critics Best Film prize (though it was a very acrimonious vote and caused several critics to resign from the group because of it) and seemed the odds-on favorite to win Best Picture. At the time, there were many who were thrilled that OLIVER! had won (also bringing the iconic Carol Reed his only win for Best Director).

 

[Jeff Newcomb]

I like the film quite a bit myself, but that doesn't change Brandon's objective statement that Oliver! is frequently derided as one of the worst films to win the Oscar for Best Picture. It simply is. That's a statement of fact. Many of us may disagree with that opinion, but it's out there and it's common.

 

[Jim*Tod]

I love OLIVER! and look forward to owning the blu ray. I do think the reason it is often derided for winning best picture of 1968 is that 2001 came out the same year and was not nominated for best picture. This is usually used to illustrate how often the Academy has been out of touch with the times. I will not attempt to compare the two films... they are not remotely the same type thing. If you look at what got nominated (or won) over the years, the films, actors, and directors that were passed over have often been the ones we now rate the highest. Certainly no one who loves film and knows film history is so naive as to think the best picture Oscar is always the best movie of the year.

 

[David Weicker]

I simply feel that NO Best Picture should be at risk of being OOP immediately. (or even after a couple of months).

There is no rational business case for Limited Editions. Small initial pressings, sure. But any business plan that has built-in un-met demand is a bad plan. Because of Sony's marketing division's prowess and decision-making, Christine is NOT available on Blu-Ray, Night Of The Living Dead is NOT available on Blu-Ray, Fright Night is NOT available on Blu-Ray.

I don't think this should ever be part of the conversation for a Best Picture Winner (regardless of how poorly some list-maker feels). And over the past few days I've looked at some of these lists and the films that are lumped in with Oliver at the 'bottom' - How Green Was My Valley, The Sound Of Music, Titanic, Rocky, Forrest Gump, and Gigi.

David

 

[rsmithjr]

It is a sad fact that everytime Sony provides one of its superb transfers to TT for delivery to the film's fans, we have the same argument here on this forum.

Given the state of the market, it appears that Sony has found a reasonable way to get us a quality product. I appreciate their many efforts, including Picnic, Bell Book and Candle, Bye Bye Birdie.

I simply don't believe that there is this huge group of people who would rush out to their local stores to buy films when somehow they are unable to find the same movie on TT's Amazon storefront. It would seem a reasonable guess that these dedicated fans might know about Amazon at least even if they haven't heard of TT.