Considering GR AV3s, here come the questions. (1 Viewer)

[Justin Ward]

2 Reasons Actually:
1) My Tempest is not the most musical sub out there. It is the SBB4 Alignment which has a ton of output for movies but isn't the best for music.

2) The 194L Tempest enclosure is much too large for a dorm room.

 

[MikeSRC]

Would that invite include her husband, Elvis Costello?

Actually, I like her singing as well as her piano playing. If you really want to hear some exceptional recordings that will truly test your speakers, try one of the AIX Records discs. Mark Waldrep has made some phenomenal recordings of various types of music.

 

[PaulDF]

I am a proud owner of a set of AV3s, and am very pleased with their very clean clear and crisp sound. I find the bass blends in so well that it seems its not even there, on some recordings... On bass heavy music they will rattle my walls.

My question is this... If these DIY speakers are all in the +/- 2-3 db range, why do some seem to put out more bass? Sure they may play lower, but is there a lot of music (everyday rock, etc) that goes below 35-40 hz?

 

[Michael R Price]

Paul that is an interesting question, it seems to me like even with rock music you get a better impression of "size" and power from a larger and deeper extending speaker (or subwoofer).

The way I understand it, each speaker has a certain amount of electrical compensation for baffle step, and so the frequency response in free air may be shelved a bit, under a frequency of say 400 to 700 Hz. A speaker design with no baffle step at all in free air may sound bass heavy in a room. I think the Kit281s use 4-5db of electrical compensation - that is, the midrange and treble frequencies are padded down 4-5db relative to bass - so a 1-2db deficiency under 500Hz remains in free air (probably best balanced out by gain in a medium to large room). Frequency response accuracy might also be quoted without taking the potentially variable bass response into account, so it isn't immediately obvious what level of bass the speaker is designed to produce. Some mini-monitors designed for small rooms may not have any baffle step compensation at all, and other speakers may have 6db (or more? I don't know) of compensation. See http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/speakermeasurements/ and http://www.sound.westhost.com/bafflestep.htm.

Perhaps bass-induced distortion in the midrange can change the tone of the bass even if the frequency response is reasonable. Most of us have recognized how better quality bass sounds quieter than what we're used to, right? I'm guessing a bit here, but distortion products caused by bass frequencies might come into play (subjectively affecting tone) at lower levels than we think. It seems like significant (but not immediately obvious) compression and distortion affects the sound long, long before the limits of the speaker are reached. I can't come up with a better explanation for why bigger speakers sound better to me.

 

[PaulDF]

Thanks Michael. Theres a lot of very interesting reading there.

I hate to sound simple, but are you basically saying that some speakers compensate for room gain, before they are even in the room?

The reputable specs and graphs I've seen for frequency response usually start/stop at the F3 point. I'm not sure what you mean by "potentially variable bass response" ?

 

[Justin Ward]

Just thought I check these points with you guys before I pull the trigger on the HE10.1s.

With the 10.1s can I expect the following?:

1) Clear mid-range, although not quite as smooth as that from an AV3.

2) Reasonable, though not spectacular, bass extension in a small room. Enough to be comfortably crossed over at around 50-60Hz.

3) Excellent efficiency

4) Exciting but not overly-bright top end.

5) Forward, rock-like sound.

6) They will not be overly revealing of lower-end equipment.

If the speaker meets most or all of these I think they will be my pick.

 

[AlexKunec]

I have built the HE 10.1s and the GR-Research AV1+s for my brother. Im a college student and not an audiophile in any way. To my ears, the AV1+s sound sooo much better. The HE10s will go louder, but the av1+s are plenty loud for me. The AV1+s just make you want to sit down and listen to all you tunes, to see how much better they sound with them. The HE10.1s do sound really good, but im not sure that I really like the sound that the horn tweeter makes. It seems to fade into the background at times, and hurt your ears at others. This summer, Im gonna build some AV2s to replace my HE10.1s (it is for sale).

 

[AndyHangartner]

I have the Av3's and really enjoy them. They are a totally different speaker than the HE12.1. Comparisons wouldn't be apples to apples. They are clear and detailed. They also work well for H/T. Thanks,Danny

 

[Michael R Price]

Justin, I think you've got a plan... please recognize that the horn tweeter may be pretty "revealing" (what Alex said near the end of his post, seems like differences in recordings to me). It's also a bit less accurate, frequency response wise, than regular soft domes. But I'm still predicting it will be more fun to listen to.

Paul, yes, that's pretty much it. And I think most measurements we see are quasi anechoic (MLS) above some frequency like 200 or 300 Hz, and the near field response of the woofer/port is spliced in below that. I am not sure how that affects the measured or perceived far field response. The Soundstage speaker measurements (fully anechoic) I linked to above, show significant differences (from -5db to +3db perhaps) in general bass/midrange balance.

 

[Ross W.]

Justin,

You were looking to here the speakers to compare but tough to find local well I am in Charlottetown, PEI and am currently building a pair of AV-3TL's and a sealed AV-3 for my recently constructed home theater . iF you ever find yourself on PEI you can come by for a listen.
My nephew has a set of HE 10.1's which I can use for testing. I too has a tough time deciding what to go with and decided to go for the GR's after reading alot and talking to Danny but never hearing them . THe cabinets are ready for braces and the speakerparts are on route . I expect to have them finished in about a month.

The HE10.1 are a great sounding speaker but I am no expert. I compared them to my 11 year old Canton Carat's which were a nice speaker in their day ($2000) and the HE10.1 were much better for vocals in particular but otherwise not a huge improvement but definately an improvement. The Canton's had better low end, I would say the HE 10.1's need the sub to perform . They sound great on tube gear which is what they are really designed for. With my Classe CA150
they were nice but not as nice as when matched with my nephew's tube amp.

Another thing I like about the A/V3's are the tidy cabinets , the narrow design I find cleaner more appealing than the boxy shape of the HE10.1's

Ross Wheatley

 

[Justin Ward]

Ross, that sounds excellent, I may just take you up on that offer. I'm not too far away at all, I'm only 10 minutes from the caribou end of the ferry. I must say I'm very excited about getting to hear these speakers in action. As much as I value the opinions of everyone on this forum, hearing the speakers myself would really help my decision.

 

[Ross W.]

Justin,
I will post as soon as I get them running and you can drop me aline to schedule something.

Ross

 

[Justin Ward]

Sounds like a plan Ross. Just curious, are you upgrading your AV3s with sonicaps?

 

[Ross W.]

Justin,

Yes I bought the Sonicap upgrade, everyone seems to highly recommend them and Danny recommended as well. Do I really neeed them I huess I will never know if I wpuld be a ble to hear the difference as I will probably never have a side by side comparison. I plan on getting AV-1's for surrounds pending the performance of the AV-3's. I don't know if I will get the upgrades for the AV-1's probably not but there is the argument to have them for timber matching.

My speaker components arrived yesterday. I am installing the bracing now so I should have the speakers functional in a couple of weeks

Ross

 

[george king]

ross,

i have the av-1s with the caps upgrade. they are amazing, and would be a great match for the av-3s.

go for it.

 

[Justin Ward]

Good luck with the construction Ross. Did you order your kit through creative sound?

 

[Ross W.]

I called Danny directly and ordered straight from GR, was no hassle at all. I was going to order from Creative solutions as I ordered my Adire Tempest IB sub woofer from them but in talking to Danny he said he sent to Canada all the time and I figured it would be quicker.

Ross

 

[Justin Ward]

Oh, I didn't realize that was an option. How much did it end up costing you?

 

[Justin Ward]

Whoa, I just noticed you said you had an IB Tempest. Maybe I could have a listen to that as well? I've always wondered what the sound is like.

 

[Ross W.]

My IB Tempest arrived yesterday as well so I am trying to get that built as well. I just got a single tempest for now as I am not sure if two would be required, most people seem to use two but my room is only 12.5ft x 19ft. I plan driving each coil of the speaker from a channel of my B&K AV-5000 amp so ach coil gets its own amp. I will be using the fixed crossover in my B&K pre/pro for now until I can upgrade to an eq.