Warner Brothers is making a mistake (1 Viewer)

[RolandL]

Probably $500k+ to make the first Blu-ray.

Not a good investment.

And then there are the wonderful reviews:

The French Line

Except for a four-minute, censorably costumed dance by Jane Russell, this is a rather mild, gabby, fashion parade in 3-D.

variety.com

I’ll ask the big question.

If WB offered to sell the IP for $250k, who here would buy it?

Their only choice to make a profit or break even is to hire The 3-D Film Archive to do the restoration. Of course there are other titles they could choose from.

 

[Robert Harris]

That's an exception as Dave Strohmaier and Tom March did the restoration for a very low cost.

And WB is a 50% owner.

 

[ThadK]

I almost don’t want to go here again, but regardless, a few notes, as WB, as well as other studios are doing continual work to save their libraries. The problem is that the libraries are huge.

Virtually all safety based prime motion picture elements owned and in the hands of the studios are sitting in proper vaults.

Nitrate based elements ditto, but always with the possibility of an accident.

Early safety based and all tri-acetate image and tracks (opt & mag) can suffer VS.

The overriding problem remains funding. Films are being preserved, and if necessary, restored on a continuing basis. You just don’t hear about it.

As to 3D films - they have minimal market appeal, and there are only a small percentage that are quality productions that would bring in the cost of their preservation/restoration, which is 2x+ that of a normal film.

This is where 3DFA is helpful, especially dealing with PD and indie product, as they can provide access to collectors via public funding, at a lower price point than full-on studio level work.

\\

This is where 3DFA is helpful, especially dealing with PD and indie product, as they can provide access to collectors via public funding, at a lower price point than full-on studio level work.

Also Paramount, Universal, and MGM.

 

[Albert71292]

I saw a few 3-D movies in the theater ages ago, "Jaws 3", "Friday the 13th 3-D", and "Comin' At Ya". Yes, the novelty was nice, but I don't really care to wear special glasses to watch a movie. Also, I haven't bothered to go to a theater since at least the mid 1990's to see ANY movie. There are probably more people like me who would rather wait and stay home to watch a movie these days, with the bigger home screens and surround sound systems.

 

[Camps]

Plenty of good arguments on all sides of this discussion.

Me? I'm biased; I want all classic 3D movies unearthed from the vaults, with any means of profitable home-media exploitation to be considered.

3DFA has famously found quality -- frankly, labor-of-love -- workarounds to the (on the surface) daunting expense of bringing these titles to blu ray. They managed to do so successfully for MGM, Paramount and Universal.

As noted above, when it's an indie film with no studio ties, 3DFA will seek to fund the restoration via crowdfunding (hence the moniker "Kickstarter Boys"...), which has enabled them to bring us multiple titles.

But the studios typically eschew outside funding. Which is fine. At least to their credit, MGM, Paramount and Universal brought in outside experts, to satisfactory results for all parties.

George Feltenstein, who led the way so wonderfully in cracking open WB's vaults years ago, needs to pick up the phone today and call Bob Furmanek. At least have the conversation.

Or don't.... and leave those assets unmonetized.

 

[roxy1927]

I remember reading a recollection from someone saying they saw The French Line when it opened at the Criterion in Times Square(watch somebody find that it really opened at the Globe.) He said the lines were long so I assumed it was a smash and at least a fun entertaining film. Would grab even a bluray.

 

[Robert Harris]

George Feltenstein, who led the way so wonderfully in cracking open WB's vaults years ago, needs to pick up the phone today and call Bob Furmanek. At least have the conversation.

Or don't.... and leave those assets unmonetized.

You are not stating another obvious alternative.

Warner Bros. has proven their ability to preserve and restore their 3D holdings internally.

I believe they’ve already released one or two.

Mr. Feltenstein needs not pick up a phone and call anyone except Warner’s own archival staff and MPI.

 

[Camps]

You are not stating another obvious alternative.

Warner Bros. has proven their ability to preserve and restore their 3D holdings internally.

I believe they’ve already released one or two.

Mr. Feltenstein needs not pick up a phone and call anyone except Warner’s own archival staff and MPI.

Yes and I'm quite happy to have those initial WB 3D blu rays.

But the whole point everyone keeps making -- on this thread and elsewhere -- is that, based on its own internal cost structures, WB finds it prohibitively expensive to prepare its remaining classic 3D titles for blu ray release.

And yet they don't want to invite outside consultants to help them figure out workarounds? Is it for asset-security reasons? Union reasons? In any case... kind of a Catch-22, no?

And I'm sorry, but a preserved/restored movie without a home-media component is bupkis. I'm not about to make the trek from Manhattan to Rome, NY for a screening....

 

[Robert Harris]

Yes and I'm quite happy to have those initial WB 3D blu rays.

But the whole point everyone keeps making -- on this thread and elsewhere -- is that, based on its own internal cost structures, WB finds it prohibitively expensive to prepare its remaining classic 3D titles for blu ray release.

And yet they don't want to invite outside consultants to help them figure out workarounds? Is it for asset-security reasons? Union reasons? In any case... kind of a Catch-22, no?

And I'm sorry, but a preserved/restored movie without a home-media component is bupkis. I'm not about to make the trek from Manhattan to Rome, NY for a screening....

Home video is merely a part of the numbers that go into the mix, and it has nothing to do with preservation and restoration.

Those who preserve and restore films work on different levels, based upon the assets necessary at the end of a project.

While an acceptable 2k or HD video master can be produced at a lesser expense, the prime elements will not meet the studio need.

This has nothing to do with WB.

An expense is an expense, once again, based upon the level of assets required at a certain level of quality, and based upon condition of extant elements.

 

[Camps]

Home video is merely a part of the numbers that go into the mix, and it has nothing to do with preservation and restoration.

Those who preserve and restore films work on different levels, based upon the assets necessary at the end of a project.

While an acceptable 2k or HD video master can be produced at a lesser expense, the prime elements will not meet the studio need.

This has nothing to do with WB.

An expense is an expense, once again, based upon the level of assets required at a certain level of quality, and based upon condition of extant elements.

All some of us are saying is, we want at least some of those remaining WB and RKO 3D titles to get blu ray releases. If WB's initial answer is to be that they can't do so profitably via current practices and policies, will they not entertain alternatives?

 

[Robert Crawford]

All some of us are saying is, we want at least some of those remaining WB and RKO 3D titles to get blu ray releases. If WB's initial answer is to be that they can't do so profitably via current practices and policies, will they not entertain alternatives?

The answer to your question is probably no!

 

[Camps]

The answer to your question is probably no!

Pity.

But, after all... it is their property, to do with -- or not -- as they see fit.

 

[Will Krupp]

I remember reading a recollection from someone saying they saw The French Line when it opened at the Criterion in Times Square(watch somebody find that it really opened at the Globe.) He said the lines were long so I assumed it was a smash and at least a fun entertaining film. Would grab even a bluray.

Vincent, don't worry, it WAS the Criterion! Lol

 

[ScottHM]

A great percentage of silent cinema was not lost. It was destroyed by the owners as there was no value to retain elements.

What I would like to see, is that copyright holders with elements they feel are of too little value and take up too much space, would donate them to the public domain and hand over the physical elements to the LoC. Perhaps a nominal tax break could make this an attractive option.
---------------

 

[mskaye]

Probably $500k+ to make the first Blu-ray.

Not a good investment.

And then there are the wonderful reviews:

The French Line

Except for a four-minute, censorably costumed dance by Jane Russell, this is a rather mild, gabby, fashion parade in 3-D.

variety.com

I’ll ask the big question.

If WB offered to sell the IP for $250k, who here would buy it?

The title of this thread is misleading. It should be "Blu ray/4k 3-D restorations I would like to see but will never see the light of day (in 2D too.) As Mr. Harris said, most of those films are not of high quality, or especially memorable as works of cinema. My opinion - sort of - I realize that my tastes are not shared by everyone here.

Warners would only make a lot of money by releasing The French Line if large numbers of people buy the product. Why do you believe large numbers of people in this day and age would spend their money on a semi-forgotten movie presented in a 3D format abandoned long ago by most people?

I would because I like Jane Russell and I have a 3D set-up, but my guess is that very few people under the age of forty have ever heard of Jane Russell.

40? Try 55 or more.

 

[SFMike]

Just a reminder to 3D lovers that new and improving VR headsets like the Oculus/Meta Quest 2 are a viable alternative for watching 3D films on the "big screen" environment without problems with crosstalk or image dimming due to polarizing/shutter glasses. One can even view films now in VR with a group of friends. Right now you can rent and watch current 3D releases on the "big screen" using the Big Screen VR app. As the tech matures the HMD displays will get smaller and more comfortable. Also work still continues on 3D monitors and 3D that can be viewed without glasses and the results get more impressive year by year. So, 3D delivery should not be the factor that keeps the studios from preserving and offering 3D versions of their old content as in the long run there is a road to future monetization from a mass audience. The problem of course is the classic, we have to make more profit every quarter for our shareholders mindset that plagues all corporations and keeps new projects and developments from happening.

Below is a screenshot of a 3D video I took being virtually viewed in a 3D auditorium viewed with the Quest 2 headset. In 3D the arm magically extends out over the front rows of the theater just like in the "real world." Bottom line is I believe there will be a growing niche for 3D productions native and converted, like the excellent conversion of JAWS we just saw last weekend, well into the future and the fact that display technology will continue to advance into the future and create a viable niche market for "classic" 3D content, if we have a future at this point.

 

[tsodcollector]

Also Paramount, Universal, and MGM.

and sony,disney and 20th century fox.

 

[Worth]

40? Try 55 or more.

Most of the people in their mid-50s I know have no idea who Jane Russell is. They grew up on Star Wars.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Just a reminder to 3D lovers that new and improving VR headsets like the Oculus/Meta Quest 2 are a viable alternative for watching 3D films on the "big screen" environment without problems with crosstalk or image dimming due to polarizing/shutter glasses. One can even view films now in VR with a group of friends. Right now you can rent and watch current 3D releases on the "big screen" using the Big Screen VR app. As the tech matures the HMD displays will get smaller and more comfortable. Also work still continues on 3D monitors and 3D that can be viewed without glasses and the results get more impressive year by year. So, 3D delivery should not be the factor that keeps the studios from preserving and offering 3D versions of their old content as in the long run there is a road to future monetization from a mass audience. The problem of course is the classic, we have to make more profit every quarter for our shareholders mindset that plagues all corporations and keeps new projects and developments from happening.

Below is a screenshot of a 3D video I took being virtually viewed in a 3D auditorium viewed with the Quest 2 headset. In 3D the arm magically extends out over the front rows of the theater just like in the "real world." Bottom line is I believe there will be a growing niche for 3D productions native and converted, like the excellent conversion of JAWS we just saw last weekend, well into the future and the fact that display technology will continue to advance into the future and create a viable niche market for "classic" 3D content, if we have a future at this point.
View attachment 152742

Is there a way to use such a headset without seeing a virtual auditorium? Whenever I go to the theaters or watch something at home, I try for as dark an environment and close seating choice as possible because I want to see the screen and only the screen - seeing a fake auditorium is a dealbreaker for me.

 

[Gary OS]

I don’t know if I would classify it as a mistake, but the biggest shock (to me) about Warners is that they have yet to release a Weissmuller Tarzan film on Blu-ray. Much less the entire series, which deserves it immensely in my book. I don’t know if the problem is with the elements, the fact that the films are all in b&w, some weird PC mindset, or that they just don’t think these things would sell in the 21st-century. But it sure is a shock to me.


Gary “in my wildest dreams I would’ve never thought those films would still be missing on Blu-ray by 2022“ O.